[yorwba]

Economists are generally fine with defining productivity as the ratio of aggregate outputs to aggregate inputs.

Measuring it is not the hard part.

The hard part is doing anything about it. If you can't attribute specific outputs to specific inputs, you don't know how to change inputs to maximize outputs. That's what managers need to do, but of course they're often just guessing.

[seanmcdirmid]

Measuring human productivity is hard since we can't quantify output beyond silly metrics like lines of code written or amount of time speaking during meetings. Maybe if we were hunter/gatherers we could measure it by amount of animals killed.

[ozim]

Well I pretty much see which team members are slacking and which are working hard.

But I do code myself, I write requirements so I do know which ones are trivial and which ones are not. I also see when there are complex migrations.

If you work in a group of people you will also get feedback - doesn't have to be snitching but still you get the feel who is a slacker in the group.

It is hard to quantify the output if you want to be removed from the group "give me a number" manager. If you actually do the work of a manager so you get the feel of the group like who is "Hermione Granger" nagging that others are slacking and disregard their opinion, you see who is the "silent doer" or you see who is "we should do it properly" bullshitter you can make a lot of meaningful adjustments.

[rightbyte]

> Maybe if we were hunter/gatherers we could measure it by amount of animals killed.

Even that would be hard since hunting is complex. If you are the one chasing the pray into the arms of someone else, you surely want it to be considered a team effort.

You need like 'blueberries picked'.

[yorwba]

That's why upthread we have https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41992562

"You can [accurately and meaningfully measure software engineering productivity] - but not on the level of a single developer and you cannot use those measures to manage productivity of a specific dev."

At the level of a company like Google, it's easy: both inputs and outputs are measured in terms of money.

[ozim]

As you point back to my comment.

I am not Amazon person - but from my experience 2 pizza teams was what worked and I never implemented it myself just what I observed in wild.

Measuring Google in terms of money is also flawed, there is loads of BS hidden there and lots of people paying big companies more just because they are big companies.

[js8]

> Maybe if we were hunter/gatherers we could measure it by amount of animals killed.

So that's how animal husbandry came about!