[bkor]

> Which it really isn't unless we're neglecting to count in the need for long-term backup power.

But that's not what the topic, no? It was about economically viable. It wasn't about fully relying on them. If someone can buy or place a solar panels/plant and it is economically feasible, then it is.

E.g. EU is finally connecting the various electrical grids together. So that electricity can more easily be exported/imported. Yet another way to deal with the fluctuations.

[belorn]

Connecting the various electrical grids together makes each part dependent on the grid as a whole, which transfers the dependencies and risk to each nation. When supply in the grid is low, everyone rushes to bid on the limited resources and prices spikes, leading to high instability in prices. Last time that happened the collective nations of EU spent ~800 billions in subsidies during a few months to bail citizens out, and multiple elections was won or lost based on the willingness to spend subsidies. Following that, grid taxation increased steeply in order to both cover the subsidies and build out new fossil fueled power plants and fuel supply chains in order to handle the next time supply drop.

It is not a perfect way to deal with fluctuations, and it was proven beyond doubt that voters will not accept power prices to run unchecked in a EU connected grid.

[pyrale]

> EU is finally connecting the various electrical grids together

European grids have been connected for decades, way before new renewables were a thing.

[bkor]

> European grids have been connected for decades, way before new renewables were a thing.

Agreed, but not in the amount of capacity that they're aiming for now due to increased (expected) volatility. See e.g. https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/infrastructure/electricit... which sets a 2030 target of 15%.

[haccount]

The irony of interconnected grids to "reduce volatility" is that any place that previously had a stable grid with low prices are suddenly seeing the exported volatility from the German energy suicide experiment crossing the borders to rape their wallets

[luckylion]

> If someone can buy or place a solar panels/plant and it is economically feasible, then it is.

"then it is" what? economically viable? He still needs 100% backup from other sources, so you have to factor that cost in. Possible? Yeah, it's possible, but that wasn't the question.

[bkor]

> "then it is" what? economically viable? He still needs 100% backup from other sources, so you have to factor that cost in.

Nope, you do not need to factor that in. If I put solar panels on my house, I check if it's worth the cost/investment. I am not intending to go fully off-grid, that is not the aim. Similarly for a solar plant. If it's economically viable it means if there's a good return on investment.

> He still needs 100% backup from other sources, so you have to factor that cost in.

Again, if you put solar panels up or if you have a solar plant it does not make any sense to factor in such costs to make a business case/economical sense. You're adding complications that aren't there.

[luckylion]

> You're adding complications that aren't there.

I'm just not ignoring externalities. You can't do your thing _unless_ the other thing is being taken care of, you have a hard dependency on it, so factoring in the cost of that is the right thing to do. You'll pay that cost, too, be it via your net-hookup fees, or taxes that subsidize it. If you're lucky, others will pay more than you do and you can make more money. That's economically viable at a small scale but does not scale far, because you quickly run out of other people who foot the bill.

Much like tax havens do not scale, because they don't produce anything of value, their concept does not work without other countries where the value is being created.