[jchw]

It's a little more nuanced than that of course, a big reason why the memory usage is so high is because Node.JS needs more of it to take advantage of a large multicore machine for compute-intensive tasks.

> Regarding the abnormally high memory usage, it's because I'm running Node.js in "cluster mode", which spawns 12 processes for each of the 12 CPU cores on my test machine, and each process is a standalone Node.js instance which is why it takes up 1300+ MB of memory even though we have a very simple server. JS is single-threaded so this is what we have to do if we want a Node.js server to make full use of a multi-core CPU.

On a Raspberry Pi you would certainly not need so many workers even if you did care about peak throughput, I don't think any of them have >4 CPU threads. In practice I do run Node.JS and JVM-based servers on Raspberry Pi (although not Node.JS software that I personally have written.)

The bigger challenge to a decentralized Internet where everyone self-hosts everything is, well, everything else. Being able to manage servers is awesome. Actually managing servers is less glorious, though:

- Keeping up with the constant race of security patching.

- Managing hardware. Which, sometimes, fails.

- Setting up and testing backup solutions. Which can be expensive.

- Observability and alerting; You probably want some monitoring so that the first time you find out your drives are dying isn't months after SMART would've warned you. Likewise, you probably don't want to find out you have been compromised after your ISP warns you about abuse months into helping carry out criminal operations.

- Availability. If your home internet or power goes out, self-hosting makes it a bigger issue than it normally would be. I love the idea of a world where everyone runs their own systems at home, but this is by far the worst consequence. Imagine if all of your e-mails bounced while the power was out.

Some of these problems are actually somewhat tractable to improve on but the Internet and computers in general marched on in a different more centralized direction. At this point I think being able to write self-hostable servers that are efficient and fast is actually not the major problem with self-hosting.

I still think people should strive to make more efficient servers of course, because some of us are going to self-host anyways, and Raspberry Pis run longer on battery than large rack servers do. If Rust is the language people choose to do that, I'm perfectly content with that. However, it's worth noting that it doesn't have to be the only one. I'd be just as happy with efficient servers in Zig or Go. Or Node.JS/alternative JS-based runtimes, which can certainly do a fine job too, especially when the compute-intensive tasks are not inside of the event loop.

[wtetzner]

Reducing memory footprint is a big deal for using a VPS as well. Memory is still quite expensive when using cloud computing services.

[jchw]

True that. Having to carefully balance responsiveness and memory usage/OOM risk when setting up PHP-FPM pools definitely makes me grateful when deploying Go and Rust software in production environments.

[pferde]

While I agree with pretty much all you wrote, I'd like to point out that e-mail, out of all the services one could conceivably self-host, is quite resilient to temporary outages. You just need to have another backup mail server somewhere (maybe another self-hosting friend or in a datacenter), and set up your DNS MX records accordingly. The incoming mail will be held there until you are back online, and then forwarded to your primary mail server. Everything transparent to the outside word, no mail gets lost, no errors shown to any outside sender.

[bombela]

> Imagine if all of your e-mails bounced while the power was out.

Retry for a while until the destination becomes reachable again. That's how email was originally designed.

[jasode]

>Retry for a while until the destination becomes reachable again. That's how email was originally designed.

Sure, the SMTP email protocol states guidelines for "retries" but senders don't waste resources retrying forever. E.g. max of 5 days: https://serverfault.com/questions/756086/whats-the-usual-re-...

So gp's point is that if your home email server is down for an extended power outage (maybe like a week from a bad hurricane) ... and you miss important emails (job interview appointments, bank fraud notifications, etc) ... then that's one of the risks of running an email server on the Raspberry Pi at home.

Switching to a more energy-efficient language like Rust for server apps so it can run on RPi still doesn't alter the risk calculation above. In other words, many users would still prioritize email reliability of Gmail in the cloud over the self-hosted autonomy of a RPi at home.

[umanwizard]

Another probably even bigger reason people don't self-host email specifically is that practically all email coming from a residential IP is spam from botnets, so email providers routinely block residential IPs.

[jchw]

Yeah, exactly this. The natural disaster in North Carolina is a great example of how I envision this going very badly. When you self-host at home, you just can't have the same kind of redundancy that data centers have.

I don't think it's an obstacle that's absolutely insurmountable, but it feels like something where we would need to organize the entire Internet around solving problems like these. My personal preference would be to have devices act more independently. e.g. It's possible to sync your KeepassXC with SyncThing at which point any node is equal and thus only if you lose all of your devices simultaneously (e.g. including your mobile computer(s)) are you at risk of any serious trouble. (And it's easy to add new devices to back things up if you are especially worried about that.) I would like it if that sort of functionality could be generalized and integrated into software.

For something like e-mail, the only way I can envision this working is if any of your devices could act as a destination in the event of a serious outage. I suspect this would be possible to accomplish to some degree today, but it is probably made a lot harder by two independent problems (IPv4 exhaustion/not having directly routable IPs on devices, mobile devices "roaming" through different IP addresses) which force you to rely on some centralized infrastructure anyways (e.g. something like Tailscale Funnels.)

I for one welcome whoever wants to take on the challenge of making it possible to do reliable, durable self-hosting of all of my services without the pain. I would be an early adopter without question.