[phkahler]

>> I have no formal training in architecture or urban design.

Same, but I do get caught thinking about how inefficient our roads are in the US and what might be done about that. I've worked in the auto industry a lot and when calculating fuel efficiency (MPG) there is a "urban drive cycle" and a highway one that are used. The average speed on the urban cycle is a hair under 20 mph, which seems absurd because our typical speed limit outside of neighborhoods is 45mph or even 50. So I started timing my drives around town and measuring on a map... Turns out 3 minutes per mile is about right for expected drive times. The main culprit is intersections, stop lights, and left turns. You seem interested in eliminating cars, which I can appreciate but I spend my time trying to figure out how to make traffic flow more efficiently and how those layouts might be retrofitted onto the grid of roads we have. There are not easy problems.

[cryptopian]

Somebody else mentioned Strong Towns, and that's a good organization who have been thinking about this issue for a while.

You're right that they're not easy problems, and it's because it encompasses more than just road layouts, but city design, land use and culture. North American cities, for example, tend to put a bunch of their amenities like supermarkets in a few places, with homogeneous swaths of housing-only suburbs so people have to drive, and those drivers have to use all the same roads to get where they're going.

One thing you've noticed is the so-called "stroad", a highway that's attempting to be both a road (an efficient, high speed connection) and a street (a destination, where people live, work and shop). These two objectives get in the way of each other, so you end up with a road that can't carry traffic well because it has too many entrances and intersections, and a street that is hostile to anybody not in a car. Generally, efficient road design separates these two, so the higher speed connections don't serve any destinations directly.

[blactuary]

The way to make traffic flow more efficiently is to get a bunch of cars off of the road. More and better public transit with dedicated space, protected bike lanes, roundabouts, traffic calming

[phkahler]

>> The way to make traffic flow more efficiently is to get a bunch of cars off of the road.

No. I mean yeah, but no. Rural areas are the only place where traffic is low enough to meaningfully improve flow. We should be able to improve traffic flow and MPG without eliminating vehicles. IMHO bike lanes are kind of stupid because putting bikes right next to car traffic is stupid. Same for sidewalks. Separating pedestrian traffic from car and truck traffic would obviously be safer.

[tmnvix]

If you separate vehicle traffic too thoroughly then you essentially just turn roads into walls for everyone that isn't in a vehicle.

I think the idea of optimising vehicle flow in urban areas is folly. It comes at the cost of too many other things.

Here's an example of what I mean. https://maps.app.goo.gl/pati5dBBTnSgxZ1m9 . It shows a road in a built up area that has been optimised to increase vehicle flow to the airport (using a roundabout instead of lights) and the effect that has on someone trying to travel by foot - turning what would be a <1min walk into 30min.