[KeplerBoy]

Care is not something that is magically performed by the state or money. At some point someone has to physically wash and feed the elderly in the retirement homes.

If past governments or cultural environments messed up demographics, states might end up with a significant fraction (Germany already has 22% aged 65+) of the population in need of that care, which requires another significant share of the population to just do that instead of producing actual stuff.

This will either get ugly in one way or another or we will need scalable tech solutions.

[Gare]

Or importing even more foreign workers. Which I'm not strictly against, but does come with it's own set of challenges.

[FirmwareBurner]

>Or importing even more foreign workers.

Except you can't force foreign workers to do shit jobs the locals don't want. They're not slaves.

[beachy]

I don't think anyone's talking about forcing, or slavery.

Foreign workers are improving their lot (and that of their families back home). In a world where they don't have the same economic opportunities in their home countries, and the locals don't want to do those "shit jobs", it's a win win.

Even talking about shit jobs is pejorative. Foreign workers don't just pick fruit, they're also essential talent in healthcare and other critical areas.

[FirmwareBurner]

>Even talking about shit jobs is pejorative.

Why is that? Do you think shit jobs don't exist? You think wiping other old people's asses is NOT a shit job? Are you lining up for these kinds of jobs yourself or did you work and study hard to not have to do them because you knew those jobs are shit and are usually given to the lowest underclass class of people who don't have better options due to various factors?

> Foreign workers don't just pick fruit

I never said such thing. The thread I replied was about importing workers for elderly care.

You're trying to project some things I didn't say onto me.

[FpUser]

This does not always happen but it happens often:

They're promised path to citizenship and an ok money. Then they discover that they work for an agency that takes away big chunk of their money. They can not change the employer since they'll be deported etc. etc. And the worst part is that at the end they still have to leave the country.

So yeah maybe not technically but they're slaves.

[ImPostingOnHN]

They don't need to be forced. They come here willing to do those jobs. After all, they're not slaves.

[FirmwareBurner]

Exactly. They come willingly but you can't force them to wipe your old age ass once they're here.

[Gare]

Actually... they kinda can? If they don't work, they get deported back. Also they are in debt to the agency that got them here. It's a hair above modern slavery the way it currently works, especially in EU countries with more... lax standards than Germany.

[FirmwareBurner]

>If they don't work, they get deported back.

lol, nice joke, how many illegals has Germany for example deported? Deporting people in the EU is a huge hassle and the source countries often don't want to cooperate in taking back people. You'll have to murder someone to actually get the authorities in the EU go through the hassle of deporting you, but refusing to work shit jobs isn't enough to get you deported, just have your welfare access cut off.

Plus they can also claim asylum once they get here to escape their slave drivers and not get deported.

>especially in EU countries with more... lax standards than Germany

Germany already has lax standards on that regard. Many there are raking in huge profits by bringing in these vulnerable workers and having them work in terrible conditions.

[ImPostingOnHN]

I fear you might have stopped reading halfway through my post. Continue reading after the word "willing":

> They come here willing to do those jobs.

Someone willing to do a job means you don't need to force them to do it. After all, they aren't slaves.

[FirmwareBurner]

No, I read what you wrote and I meant what I said. Let me explain again: people are willing to do anything, even jobs they dislike, just to get a visa. That doesn't mean they'll want keep doing that shitty job once they get the visa and can start looking for workarounds. Otherwise there wouldn't be a shortage of staff in those sectors if all workers would stick around for long.