[_kidlike]

Let's pretend you didn't write the last 2 sentences...

first of all "internet in Europe" makes close to zero sense to argue about. The article just uses it as a shortcut to not start listing countries.

I live in a country where I have 10Gbps full-duplex and I pay 50$ / month, in "Europe".

The issue is that some countries have telecom lobbies which are still milking their copper networks. Then the "competition committees" in most of these countries are actually working AGAINST the benefit of the public, because they don't allow 1 single company to start offering fiber, because that would be a competition advantage. So the whole system is kinda in a deadlock. In order to unblock, at least 2 telecoms have to agree to release fiber deals together. It has happened in some countries.

[0points]

What european countries still dont have fiber?

//Confused swede with 10G fiber all over the place. Writing from literally the countryside next to nowhere.

[zelphirkalt]

If you really need it pointed out, take it from a German neighbor: Telekom is running some extortion scheme or so here. Oh we could have gotten fiber to our house already ... if we paid them 800+ Euro! So we rather stick with our 100MBits or so connection that is not fiber but copper. If the German state does not intervene here, or the practices of ISPs and whoever has the power to build fiber changes, we will for the foreseeable future still be on copper.

Then there are villages, which were promised fiber connections, but somehow after switching to the fiber connection made them have unstable Internet and ofter no Internet. Saw some documentary about that, could be fixed by now.

Putting fiber into the ground also requires a whole lot of effort opening up roads and replacing what's there. Those costs they try to push to the consumers with their 800+ Euro extortion scheme.

But to be honest, I am also OK with my current connection. All I worry about is it being stable, no package loss, and no ping spikes. A consistently good connection stability is more important than throughout. Sadly, I cannot buy any of those guarantees from any ISP.

[0points]

FWIW, Sweden subsidized fiber digging but we still had to pay 2000 EUR to get it connected.

Government will pay the extra fees, which can easily end up close to 10000 EUR due to large distances.

If all you need to pay is 800 EUR, then I don't understand what is your issue? Just pay it.

[singron]

Is 800 euros that bad? In the US, we were quoted $10k a few years back. Even if fiber is already at the road, $800 is probably a fair price just to trench the line from the road to your home and install an entry point. If they provide free installation, then they have to make up the cost by raising your rates.

[zelphirkalt]

I think private households paying 800 Euro for what should be public infrastructure, being milked by ISPs is pretty bad.

[holowoodman]

Germany.

Deutsche Telekom is the former monopoly that was half-privatized around 1995 or something. The state still owns quite a large stake of it.

They milk their ancient copper crap for everything they can while keeping prices high.

They are refusing useful backbone interconnects to monopolize access to their customers (Actually they are not allowed to refuse. They just offer interconnections only in their data centers in the middle of nowhere, where you need to rent their (outrageously priced) rackspace and fibres because there is nothing else. They are refusing for decades to do anything useful at the big exchanges like DECIX).

And if there should ever be a small competitor that on their own tries to lay fibre somewhere, they quickly lay their own fibre into the open ditches (they are allowed to do that) and offer just enough rebates for their former copper customers to switch to their fibre that the competitor cannot recoup the invest and goes bankrupt. Since that dance is now known to everyone, even the announcement of Telekom laying their own fibres kills the competitors' projects there. So after a competitor's announcement of fibre rollout, Telekom does the same, project dead, no fibre rollout at all.

Oh, and since it is a partially-state-owned former monopoly/ministry, the state and competition authorities turn a blind eye to all that, when not actively promoting them...

Then there is the problem of "5G reception" vs. "5G reception with usable bandwidth". A lot of overbooking goes on, many cells don't have sufficient capacity allocated, so there are reports of 4G actually being faster in many places.

And also, yes, you can get 5G in a lot of actually populated areas. But you certainly will pay through the nose for that, usually you get a low-GB amount of traffic included, so maybe a tenth of the Microsoft monorepo in question. The rest is pay-10Eur-per-GB or something.

[ahartmetz]

It is almost as bad as you say, except that I recently noticed several instances of competitors offering cheaper fiber than Telekom and surviving. Still, overall fiber buildout is low, like... I looked it up, reportedly 36% now.

[immibis]

Wait, I live in that area. Does that mean I'm allowed to lay my own fiber into their open ditches too, or do they have special rights no one else has?

[holowoodman]

Afaik the special right is granted to everyone providing fibre services to the public to be informed about any ditches on public ground being dug and getting the opportunity to throw their fibre in before the ditch is closed again.

[SSLy]

Germany, GP's situation smells like their policies.

[ahoka]

I pay 42USD for 250Mbit in a larger Swedish city. What is that magic ISP I should be using?

[0points]

Change landlord. I used to pay about 100 SEK for bahnhof in svenska bostäder before I moved away. It came with public IP and everything.

[BenjiWiebe]

Sounds like you are already using a magic ISP (rural USA here).