[jim_kaiser]

I have used both the state machine pattern and MVC in large projects and in some cases used both together. There is no problem with MVC. It can work with any number of supporting patters. If your problem is your controller doing too much work.. you're just doing MVC wrong! MVC is not the answer to life, the universe and everything. As long as you use it with that understanding you'll be fine. MOVE with its operations concept seems very similar to MVC with command pattern which is a perfectly viable solution which I have used in a project which involved making our own document editor and we had no issues with it. So, I really don't get what all the fuss is about. STFU and use what supports your requirements. Design patterns are evil themselves. Design according to your requirements and empower your models. That's all you need to do!