[fuzztester]

Related:

Taipan by James Ckavelk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai-Pan_(novel)

I had read it some years ago. Interesting depictions of that period, Hong Kong, interactions between the British and Chinese then, and more. Good writing, IMO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clavell

Excerpt:

>Clavell wanted to write a second novel because "that separates the men from the boys".[21] The money from King Rat enabled him to spend two years researching and then writing what became Tai-Pan (1966). It was a huge best-seller, and Clavell sold the film rights for a sizeable amount (although the film would not be made until 1986).[22]

King Rat was also good.

[keiferski]

Great book. Noble House (also by Clavell) is also excellent and takes place a century later, also in Hong Kong, and about the same firm established in Tai-Pan.

[karmakurtisaani]

I didn't realize Shogun was his third book. I somehow always thought it was his first.

Also this

> Clavell admired Ayn Rand, founder of the Objectivist school of philosophy

Never meet your heroes, I suppose..

[TeaBrain]

If you had read his books you wouldn't have been surprised. Libertarian capitalist ideals and individualism are themes throughout his works.

[karmakurtisaani]

>If you had read his books you wouldn't have been surprised.

Is that condescending tone improving the discussion quality, what do you think?

I have read at least Tai-Pan, Shogun and Gai-Jin. In Shogun it's harder to point out, but in the others sure. But they describe Western trade houses operating in Asia, so the themes you mention fit them quite well.

It's been a while since I read the books, and I might feel differently if I read them now with the randian perspective in mind.

[TeaBrain]

What does a "randian perspective" mean to you and why would the Clavell's admiration of Rand warrant the comment to "never meet your heroes"?

[karmakurtisaani]

I enjoyed Clavell's books quite a bit when I read them, so I consider him a good writer. What I know about Rand tho is that she was quite the dummy (starting from naming her very subjective "philosophy" objectivism). Her books have typically been described as hollow (haven't read any and don't intend to). So it's somewhat disappointing to see Clavell admiring her.

By randian perspective I mean reading the books while particularly focusing on themes of liberalism, individualism and the like. Of which there is certainly plenty, but not limited to.

[TeaBrain]

Atlas Shrugged was her objectivist/philosophy of selfishness novel and it's a terribly wooden and poorly written work of literature. The Fountainhead and Anthem were both written before the formalizing of objectivism and are much more philosophical novels of individualism. While Anthem does lean a little towards her philosophy of selfishness called "objectivism", The Fountainhead is almost completely absent of this. It is the most similar to Clavell's novels, in the way of it's individualist protagonist. Running themes in it include shirking of orthodoxy and cultural norms, and finding success against the odds to achieve lofty unorthodox individual goals, despite much easier orthodox life paths existing. I find it somewhat bewildering that it is sometimes referred to as a conservative novel when a running theme of the novel is to cast away conservative tradition in pursuit of the new progress, as is done by the iconoclastic protagonist.