[nathannecro]

I'll say this, I preordered both a Rivian and a Cybertruck when they announced and I purchased the Rivian because it was available roughly 2 years before the Cybertruck even started deliveries.

I've had some small teething problems with the truck but it has been the best vehicle I've ever driven. It works perfectly as a regular daily driver but I can load my SCUBA gear and tanks into the back, and go off-road, get a bunch of dives in, and be back to my truck that I've outfitted with fresh water for a shower, a fridge in the frunk for snacks and drinks, and a gear tunnel with dry and warm clothes.

Now that I can charge on the Supercharger network, the truck has just gotten even better since I no longer have to plan out my charging as carefully. The Rivian is built like a tank, it's handled everything I've thrown at it in stride, and the Rivian software folks have been making progress month after month.

I'm so glad that I bought a Rivian but really, I'm even more glad that I didn't buy a Cybertruck given the absolutely disastrous launch that its had. Just off the top of my head, I've heard of wheels falling off, trim falling off, tonneau cover nonfunctional and non removable, 20% less range than marketed, accelerator pedal falling off and sticking, PRNDL falling off, seats that creak and wiggle, poor offroading capabilities, red screen of death, FSD driving the truck into the wrong lanes, and I'm sure there are many other issues that I've not even heard about.

As a long time Tesla owner (I was an early adopter of the first gen Model S), I expected the overpromise and underdelivery of their products, but I'm pretty sure I'm never going back to Tesla if Rivian and other auto companies deliver better value and quality EVs.

[rickdeckard]

> I'm pretty sure I'm never going back to Tesla if Rivian and other auto companies deliver better value and quality EVs

Which is a very sober and reasonable statement. If other companies deliver better value and quality, the only reason to buy a Tesla would be brand-loyalty (which is not a good reason to compromise on value/quality)

[nathannecro]

As mentioned, I had a few teething issues with the Rivian (mostly car noise and a leaky AC) so I was able to try out some other EVs while the truck was in the shop. I'll say that companies like Hyundai, Ford, and Mercedes have really come a long way in building EVs and all three of those are at least as good as Tesla if not better.

In my area, I can lease an entry-level Mercedes EV (I forget what they're called) something like 20-30% cheaper than I can get a Model 3. The entry-level Mercedes is decidedly worse than the Model 3, but you can't beat the pricing for what is still a very solid car (with more space and better sound quality to boot).

[rickdeckard]

No need to elaborate on that, as mentioned you made a very reasonable statement.

Congrats on coming to a conclusion based on facts rather than brand-image.

Rivian seems to have produced a good car, especially considering the young age of the company.

[spicybbq]

Seems like Rivian has a great product, but it's unclear whether the company is going to make it. If someone believed that the company will ultimately succeed and achieve scale, they should buy stock. It's very cheap.

[nathannecro]

It's really unfortunate that Rivian hasn't scaled. To me, their struggles really show how difficult of an industry it is and how small mistakes can really ruin an otherwise solid showing.

Gotta give kudos to Elon for dragging Tesla through the same hurdles and coming out on top with a profitable vehicle.

[masklinn]

> I'm sure there are many other issues that I've not even heard about.

The windshield wiper committing suicide is a common one.

[nathannecro]

Ah yes, I forgot about that. The windshield spontaneously cracking was also something I forgot to mention.

[ryandvm]

Oof - doesn't bode well for Tesla. And that isn't even considering the "Tony Stark to Andrew Tate" brand transformation of the spokesman...

[grecy]

> poor offroading capabilities

That was true before the software update that enabled the lockers. YouTube channels like TFL did a before/after video and it’s actually pretty good now.

It has lockers and huge ground clearance after all. Of course it is hindered by its huge length compared to a wrangler, but of course it’s not in the same class. It does better than an f150 for example.

Also the stock tires are crap for real off-roading, and hardly anyone knows you need to air down.

(Disclaimer: never owned a Tesla, but I off road 4x4s around the world for a living)

[nathannecro]

I guess I made that statement partially looking directly at the Cybertruck's actual performance and partially looking at the Cybertruck relative to other offroading vehicles.

The reality of the situation for the Cybertruck is that it's a pretty heavy vehicle (with as you mention) not great stock tires -- but everyone knows that. The absolute biggest issue with it though is that the tie rods for all 4 wheels don't seem to be adequate -- especially if you're coming down pretty hard on a single corner. There are countless videos out there where you see Cybertrucks with floppy wheels -- especially out offroading.

Secondly, the Cybertruck has sub-par departure angles where the hitch just gets dragged along the ground. Combined with the realization that the hitch is only rated for 160lbs of vertical load (and it's structurally attached to the frame with aluminum -- which cracks, not bends). I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable doing much beyond just bumpy roads with the truck.

Finally, the breakover angle is just not good at all either. Ground clearance doesn't mean much when the wheelbase is so long. The Rivian sits at about 15 inches of clearance with stock wheels and the Cybertruck comes in about 5% shorter at 14.4 inches. Not only that, but the Cybertruck also has a 5% longer wheelbase than the Rivian and its suspension does not articulate as much -- especially at full lift.

Real world, this means that the Rivian's departure angle in the truck is 30 degrees (plus a little more). The Cybertruck sits at 24.7 degrees in its drivable mode (it goes up to ~27 degrees if you have it in the crawl "extract" mode). There's also a 3.5ish difference in breakover angle as well.

Relative to other "standard" offroading 4x4s like the Rubicon/Wrangler or Land Cruisers, the Rivian is at best average and the Cybertruck is decidedly worse. Couple that with the R1T being able to independently power each wheel, the Cybertruck is IMO more recreational than proper off-road.

I'm not here to gatekeep so I will point out the obvious and say that the Cybertruck is for sure, a better offroading vehicle compared to most recreational/luxury vehicles out there. I'm just not sure that I'd qualify it as anything better than "okay?".

[grecy]

Everything you said is absolutely true.

> Relative to other "standard" offroading 4x4s like the Rubicon/Wrangler or Land Cruisers, the Rivian is at best average and the Cybertruck is decidedly worse

But it's pointless to compare the Cybertruck to a Wrangler or Land Cruiser. It can tow more than 3x as much, payload is more than double, it can seat five people and still have a hug amount of cargo and of course it's way, way, way longer (and wider).

It only makes sense to compare it to an F-150, Ram 1500, Rivian, etc.

In which case it is really not bad off road at all.

[toomuchtodo]

> As a long time Tesla owner (I was an early adopter of the first gen Model S), I expected the overpromise and underdelivery of their products, but I'm pretty sure I'm never going back to Tesla if Rivian and other auto companies deliver better value and quality EVs.

Indeed, I own several Teslas and cancelled my Cybertruck reservation after seeing how bad the product was up close (and absolutely not worth what they were asking for it). I ordered an F150 Lightning instead.