[MrHamburger]

Or general mass market is not interested in BEVs specifically, but in a cheap vehicle which can get them from point A to point B. And BEVs at the moment are anything but cheap + add there negative adventures with charging infrastructure if you can't charge at home (50% of people in EU can't) and owning a BEV is suddenly more of a niche thing for rich people than mass market opportunity.

[thebruce87m]

> And BEVs at the moment are anything but cheap

Fascinating to see the comments on EV threads where they are claimed to be expensive, but also that the second hand values are really low. Surely buying a second hand one solves the absolute “expensive” bit?

Even then I’d question the “more expensive than ICE” claims for new models. In the UK the average cost of a new vehicle is £40k: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinion/363624/average-new-car...

A model 3 is £40k

I am not rich. You can count me in the 50% of people who can charge at home, which saves me £100/month in fuel.

[MrHamburger]

New VW Golf floats around 30k EUR, which is still 10k EUR cheaper than Tesla Model 3 and you still have 10k for fuel - that's with your difference is 8 years of driving.

However 50% of people in EU does not have home charging (i.e. living in apartments) therefore they won't see your savings but they will see the wasted time on public chargers.

[thebruce87m]

> New VW Golf floats around 30k EUR, which is still 10k EUR cheaper than Tesla Model 3 and you still have 10k for fuel - that's with your difference is 8 years of driving.

OK? I chose an average to avoid cherry picking, so I don’t see the value of you cherry picking a cheaper car, it’s just going to be a race to the bottom.

> However 50% of people in EU does not have home charging (i.e. living in apartments) therefore they won't see your savings but they will see the wasted time on public chargers.

It’s very situation dependent. If people can charge at work, while shopping or during natural stops on long journeys and so on. For some it might take longer until infrastructure catches up, but we are digging up roads to put fibre everywhere and I refuse to believe we can’t give every space in a block of flats what essentially amounts to a 3-pin plug (or 2 in the EU).

I had to charge publicly on Friday during a long journey - I’d estimate it took around 30 seconds total extra* time and most of that was the credit card clearing. The car charged as we ate and had more than enough when we’d finished. Still faster than fuelling an ICE since we would have had to do an additional stop.

*It wasn’t even really extra since my wife was inside ordering anyway.

[MrHamburger]

> Me: Or general mass market is not interested in BEVs specifically, but in a cheap vehicle which can get them from point A to point B.

> You: so I don’t see the value of you cherry picking a cheaper car, it’s just going to be a race to the bottom

That's how mass market works. People will always want cheap stuff. Not expensive. Not average. Cheap. Pretending that Model 3 is cheap compared to cheap ICE is delusional.

The whole problem with BEV infrastructure is that it currently makes no economical sense. Otherwise responsible people would be taking care for maintenance and expansion without governmental handouts.

[thebruce87m]

The average person wants the average. That’s what the average is. There will be people wanting cheap, and people wanting expensive but it all averages out to… the average.

I didn’t pretend the Model 3 was cheap compared to cheap ICE. I compared the price of a Model 3 to the average car price, and it was average.

[MrHamburger]

That's a trap of average. When you have a guy buying Taycan for 100k EUR and guy buying Golf for 30k EUR then average car price is 65k EUR. Guy in Taycan does not care about average car and guy buying Golf can't afford this average priced car.