[kredd]

I understand this is a hot-topic, and definitely an extremely nuanced issue, but as a person who knows people who took the MAID (Canadian euthanasia process) way out for a terminal illness, I will be forever grateful for it. It’s not uncommon to meet people whose elder relatives went through it as well, after years of constant pain up here.

It definitely has shortcomings, but I genuinely hope the fixes will not result in rolling back the program completely.

[LorenPechtel]

And just because a problem isn't terminal doesn't mean it doesn't bring suffering. I do think Canada has some problems with it but even with the problems I think it's better than not offering it.

[spondylosaurus]

I was thinking about that in the case of "Mr. A" mentioned in TFA. They noted (but kinda glossed over) the fact that he had some sort of bowel disease, and obviously I don't know how much that informed his decision, but chronic health problems can bring immense physical, emotional, and social suffering.

My IBD is relatively well-managed, but on bad enough days even I'll gravitate towards some not-so-sunny thoughts.

[jncfhnb]

He was also a mentally ill drug addict by the sound of it. People are so quick to defensively yell “just because this guy is an unemployed (homeless?) mentally ill drug addict with chronic health conditions doesn’t mean he should be killed”. And yeah, it doesn’t mean that. But let’s not pretend we don’t see that this guy probably has a miserable life.

Offering MAID is not a solution to societal ills. But it’s just straight up evil to say that people can’t kill themselves to escape a bad life because it would make you sad to think about.

[dyauspitr]

I honestly think society would be very well served if people that were 85+ and in expensive hospice care with no quality of life decided they wanted to be euthanized instead to take the load off the medical system.

[nverno]

> society would be very well served

A society that encourages people to off themselves because they are a burden doesn't sound nice to me. I think anyone should have the choice (legally) to end their life, but it would be gross if people actually started talking about how that would be good for everyone else.

[lotsofpulp]

Nice or not, the numbers are the numbers. A society that dedicates too many of its resources to servicing old people who cannot provide anything back to society will not fare well on the global scene.

How much productivity can one expect to transfer from young people to old people if the total fertility rate is too low? Surely the cracks start to appear when there are 2 old people for every 1 young person? Absent sufficient automation, of course.

[Gud]

Canada is a rich and prosperous nation. How do you figure “too many of its resources” is being spent on elderly care??

[lotsofpulp]

That is up to Canadians to decide. A common effect is decreasing purchasing power of currency, which typically causes political turmoil because young workers want to be able to buy things they want if they are going to be incentivized to work.

Typically, this causes asset price inflation, where the government tries to keep the most active voters (old people) happy, and to do that, they try to keep old people’s purchasing power from diminishing too much. And since older people have more assets than younger people, it effectively results in a transfer of the fruits of the country’s productivity from young to old.

I don’t know how accurate a picture the media and the rhetoric on the internet paints, but this seems to be a growing issue in Canada, at least from changes in their real estate prices relative to income.

At the end of the day, people who don’t work need people who work. But people who work don’t need people who don’t work. Presumably, if people who work never received anything in exchange, then they would not be incentivized to works.

And so the implied contract is people work now and give to people who don’t work, and in exchange, in the future, they will be the people who don’t work and receive from people who work.

But if there will be fewer people who work in the future, and not sufficient automation, and people who work now see perhaps their parents getting less than they expect, and they see TFR trends, and put two and two together and realize they are not going to get what they put in, then they may choose to opt out of this contract.

[Gud]

I agree with your main points.

[bluefirebrand]

I don't think Canada behaves like a rich and prosperous nation, honestly

The way Canada operates me reminds me of people I know who have poverty mindset. Spending money on longterm investments seems unthinkable here

I think it's a side effect of politicians only really caring about the next election cycle. Any investment that won't pay off before the next election is sidelined

[rini17]

But that mindset is pervasive. If we don't have the resources for old people, then what about chronically ill? Everything gets optimalized away, then we end up with inadequate care for children...and if society is not even capable to provide that, why have it at all?

[jncfhnb]

That’s just stupid. Even at its most evil, a policy optimized for cold economic efficiency with no ethics would have more resources for children because children are a valuable investment.

[mabster]

I agree except for any emphasis on taking a load off the medical system.

That people with terrible quality of life have the option is a good thing. It should be available for full autonomy.

I just don't want a case of any pressures to get euthanised, whether from family or society.

[sokoloff]

So long as they decided, I totally agree. The danger comes from the pressures for it to not always be the patient’s true desire.

[t1mmen]

I’m grateful to have the option if and when the time comes. Even before that age, QoL needs to be of a certain level or possible to improve, else I’m unsubscribing.

Much preferred to, say, ættestup: https://youtu.be/DwD7f5ZWhAk?si=WjwnN7cZC1h7TcJU

[m3kw9]

There is a lot of social, cultural and religious that prevents some people

[moralestapia]

Some people would prefer to live as long as (medically) possible.

[kazinator]

Really? Like spending years 60 through 90 in an inescapable coma, for instance?

[moralestapia]

Yes.