[throw88888]

It is stated just above the quoted text.

Basically a lower-than-expected response to reward anticipation and a higher-than-expected response upon reward delivery.

I.e. the typical ADHD problem of instant vs delayed gratification and how the brain responds to it.

Neurotypical people’s brains seem to be better at rewarding in anticipation and not just on actual delivery.

IIUC

[gradus_ad]

If you're thinking about 10 different things in quick succession spontaneously flipping between each without control, your brain can't deliver sustained anticipatory reward for the one thing you actually should be working towards. The brain doesn't magically "know" what is important, presence in consciousness is what determines importance and reward allocation. Normal brains are able to fixate without tremendous effort.

My whole life I could barely sustain a conversation with someone because the moment they started speaking I'd reflexively begin thinking about something else. But when I tried Adderall I could actually have genuine conversations with people, hearing them and thinking about what they were saying and then responding, doing this repeatedly for many minutes. It felt like a superpower.

[jvanderbot]

Some of the "Flipping around" might be caused by an inability to discount the reward from the thing you're flipping to - it seems important / rewarding. It's not much different than someone refusing to work on an important thing because they can't stop thinking about this neat thing over here that feels cooler. Just to connect to the subject at hand.

[bratwurst3000]

hmmm yes could be that people with adhd,me for example, cant feel the reward of social contact so its hard to listen if not geniunly interested.

sometimes i try to reward myself conscious of something and it works. for example i think conscious about how if i finish a little task it would make me happier. then i kind of force a reward feeling towards the anticipation to have something done. and it works. i feel motivated to do little tasks. and if i do this repeatedly and on bigger and bigger tasks it reduces my adhd symptoms… but then there is suddenly something else to do and then i do this while thinking about the things i should do and what i could do next and suddenly i start 10 things and how the fuck did this happen … where are my keyes? :)

[jvanderbot]

The "where are my keys" thing is the worst. I can get locked in a 5 minute loop trying to figure out the next step to leave the house. I'm busy thinking about a cool problem at work or the next step in a game, or an upcoming fun thing, and I cannot for the life of me focus on finding my keys. Or I'll go looking and get reminded I also need to do X before I leave, then start that instead, and restart the whole problem.

I used to have a little jingle I'd subvocally sing: "Badge, wallet, keys, notes, laptop, phone; Owen's fed, doors locked, leaving home". It was my checklist. It's why I'll throw my backpack in the car even if I'm going to meet friends: It just helps me put aside the preparation anxiety to just do the same thing every time.

Those routines are helpful. I also keep prepacked bags - a backpack for work, a gym bag with copies of keys for gym, etc etc. I even have two or three pre-stocked wallets for those bags or I'll get stuck in optimizing my credit card selection for an activity. My wife laughs, but she's the one who loses her phone, cannot find her wallet, and to this day has no idea where her car keys are.

Atomic Habits was helpful. It's about how to set up your subconcious so you don't have to painfully think about every decision all the time. Maybe it's made me less able, maybe not. But going to the gym at 3 has become so routine that I find myself up in the kitchen before I realize why I left my office.

I'm guessing this is all pre-emergent dementia, honestly.

[austin-cheney]

Yes, the utility behind that behavior is that the brain floods itself with dopamine when task completion feels imminently close in anticipation of the approaching reward. The flooding of dopamine, which is the motivation, does not suggest increased dopamine reception, which is the reward.

That utility alone accounts for gambling addiction. Consider that slot machines are a game of random chance against fixed odds. Every time you play the chance of winning is random against the same odds just like the last time. The more a person plays consecutively without winning, a losing streak, the more the brain anticipates winning the next time which builds dopamine anticipation in the brain even though a person is just as likely to continue losing into the future on each iteration.

What's more interesting is that this addiction behavior can be flicked on or off instantly, like a light switch, with medication. What's more strange though is that medically induced gambling addiction, yes that is a very real thing, effects females far more than males. I don't know if the cause of difference in behavior by sex is identified.

[squidgedcricket]

Can you elaborate on what medications impact gambling behaviors?

I have some addictive/compulsive behaviors that have been hard to shake. GLP-1 agonists look promising, but I'm not sure how to get a prescription since I'm not overweight.

[austin-cheney]

This article explains it well: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825131/

My suggestion, and I am not doctor or providing medical advise, is to make the addictive stimulus inconvenient. Each iteration must include more steps to increase labor of effort and each iteration must also take much longer to complete. This will re-balance the brain from prior established condition. The more painful, disconnected, or costly (in time and not money) an activity becomes the more dedicated you must become about achieving that activity before addiction can set in.

[matheusmoreira]

> make the addictive stimulus inconvenient

Assumes there is a limit to the amount of effort addicts are willing to put into getting their next dose. Easily disproved by the experience of caring for opioid addicts. Lesser drugs, even. Once upon a time, a seemingly rational benzodiazepine addict got so frustrated with my attempts to get him off of it he rose up from his seat ready to punch me in the face.

There are addicts out there who would sell their own mother for a dose. And I'm not just saying that. One of my former neighbours turned into one of these guys. People wouldn't believe the stories if I told them.

[austin-cheney]

There is always a limit. The realistic constraints of physical and social opportunities available to a given person are limitations irrespective of the person's quantity of motivation, which speaks to asset availability and social enabling. But none of this is relevant. The person to whom I replied is self-motivated to terminate their addictive patterns.

[squidgedcricket]

> The person to whom I replied is self-motivated to terminate their addictive patterns.

Kind of. The captain of the ship is motivated, but the helmsman needs to get his shit together.

[bratwurst3000]

could you tell me more about the medication. does it decrease dopamine production or does it increase reception?

[austin-cheney]

Here is an article I found about this subject: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825131/

[HPsquared]

High time preference, in other words (economic terms)