[WalterBright]

> They don't know

It works every time I asked.

[jandrese]

The provider or the insurance company? The provider can give you the cash price, but that's a made up number with no relation to reality. The Insurance company can give you what the standard discount would be on that procedure, but they can't say if they'll cover it, give only that discount, give nothing, or anything in between.

[WalterBright]

The provider. And yes, I negotiate.

[consteval]

The prices you're getting are fake, whether you know it or not. Because you're not the one paying.

This is why it's sometimes cheaper to have no insurance than insurance.