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by 0max 613 days ago
Austria has highly available state housing of high quality. I don't think they qualify as a communist state, despite one of the more prominent complexes named after Karl Marx.
2 comments

Interesting, that's a good rabbit hole for me to go down.

Unpopular opinion, but much of the west is at least partially communist these days. We may not have a communist political structure that looks like a 20th century dictatorship claiming communism but we do have plenty of state-run programs that fit really well under a banner of communism (or socialism, or Marxism if the term communism is too loaded).

What Western country has collective ownership of the means of production?
There's a question of degree for sure. Though for one example, the US heavily subsidies certain corners of the farming industry. The industry also has a heavy hand in lobbying and buying politicians so its somewhat up to opinion on which came first and whether it looks more communist or more fascist.

Boeing is another good example in my opinion. Again they aren't technically owned by the state, but the connection between the two is undeniable.

Utility companies in the US are also functionally owned by the state.

My point was never that most western countries are communist. I tried to be really clear in my GP comment that I was talking specifically about state programs that have many characteristics that overlap with communism.

edit to add the obvious one I missed: healthcare. Depending on the country, either the government took over the healthcare industry, the industry captured government regulation, or you have the worst of both worlds in the US where we somehow saw both sides take part in capturing parts of the other (and really ruining the whole system).

Subsidies have nothing to do with collective ownership of the means of production by workers, those are orthogonal. The state owning a few enterprises also isn't a markedly characteristic of communism.

I expanded more on my other reply so I will diverge us to discuss there, I think you misunderstand the terms you are using.

The roads system. I'd say that works fairly well.
That depends greatly on where you are. The US is a very mixed bag, especially when you consider the state of many of our bridges and overpasses.

Even at the state level, Louisiana is an interesting case. They're better now, but for quite a few years their roads went to shit because they refused to increase the legal drinking age and the federal government pulled funding.

Switzerland as well, and contracts for public housing last 20 years.

I really doubt someone would call Switzerland communist.

Similar to my comment above, there is a difference in having programs that follow closely with communist ideals and having a government or state that labels itself as communist.

I don't have stats for Switzerland handy but did look up Australia earlier. About 4% falls into there state-managed housing programs. That isn't nearly large enough to rival what the Soviet Union had for example, but the design of the system does seem to match with many communist goals. That is by no means a claim that Australia is communist, just a comment on their public housing program.

The other comment mentioned Austria system of public housing, not Australia's.

I believe you are misguided using the term communism or socialism, those have very specific meaning for an economic system, the overlapping characteristic being that workers own the means of production. That's it, socialised healthcare, public housing and so on are not communist/socialist.

Perhaps you are conflating social democracy with socialism/communism. The Nordics are not socialist/communist, like at all, Sweden has a freer market than the USA, and more wealth inequality, but do have social policies.

Your misuse of the terms is very confusing, I really suggest you brushing on what they mean so your communication is clearer. I got very confused at first on what you meant because there's no way any Western country is even close to Communism/Socialism/Marxism, like 100% not.