[baq]

IME macOS is easily the most broken and user hostile from a professional developer perspective. Maybe I haven't been using it enough, only 2 years.

The hardware is amazing though and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed, which is kinda a deal breaker for a laptop, so I still use it. Not particularly excited about it, would prefer a Linux laptop if it could sleep reliably. (Seen pictures of a framework laptop with a kernel panic after wake, and I was seriously considering getting one.)

[iknowstuff]

it’s very cohesive and stable by comparison to Windows. It’s beautifully designed compared to KDE. It’s most similar to gnome.

if you’re the kinda guy who sees it as user hostile, I’d wager it’s because you refuse to learn the macOS/gnome paradigm and demand things to be how they were on your windows pc 30 years ago.

what os/dwm do u use

[baq]

I'm not talking about how it looks - I don't care. I can find settings I need when the system implements them no problem.

I'm talking about the gimped OS underneath the eye candy:

- docker sucks compared to native Linux (obviously) and WSL2 (less obvious)

- I have to install BetterDisplay (props to the dev btw, great tool) just to make my perfectly good 25x16 144Hz monitor not look like shit

- I have to install a tool to invert my mouse scroll wheel

- I have to install a tool to manage windows in a sane way (sequoia only just started to know how to do that but it's a looong way ahead)

- I have to install a tool to have multiple things in the clipboard

- Sequoia broke the system firewall and it's still not fixed in 15.0.1 (my mac is enterprise issued and it has all the fancy security apps you've all heard about)

I ran out of time to keep going, these are what I'm running into daily. Fortunately there are tools, but every major macOS release breaks some of them.

[ActorNightly]

>It’s beautifully designed

I hope you understand that when you say this, its pretty easy to see that you are solely in the ideological camp of liking Apple, not a rational one.

[iknowstuff]

i’m talking about consistent HID, proper negative space, consistent padding and margins, copy etc rather than visuals. It’s more science than art.

[ActorNightly]

And im talking about the fact that there are people who are perfectly comfortable using tmux and vim, + browser window for most of their work, or something similar like i3wm. They can say that its the best possible UI layout, and their argument is just as valid as yours.

Except they don't claim it as science.

[newdee]

Pot. Kettle. But just Linux for you, right?

[ActorNightly]

Its not about pushing anything alternative as "the best". Its about saying that you prefer Mac OS based on your personal preferences and not trying to make up bullshit objective reasons for it like they are fact of the world, which Apple users tend to do A LOT, and I don't really understand why.

Like I use Windows solely, because I need to run CAD programs, I like to Game, and I use WSL2 for development purposes, and I prefer having everything in one place. But Im not going to make up reasons why its the "best" because it does all of that.

[consteval]

> it’s very cohesive and stable by comparison to Windows

That's an incredibly low bar. Windows 95 is cohesive and stable as compared to Windows.

> It’s beautifully designed compared to KDE

It's beautiful. Designed? I don't know about that. In my experience, it takes significantly less clicks, swipes, or keypresses to perform action in KDE as opposed to pretty much everything.

I consider that good desktop design, because these are tools. Less work = better tool.

> It’s most similar to gnome

Yeah, and Gnome is awful IMO. Some things just can't be done without installing extensions. The workflow is very "my way or the highway". Seemingly simple actions require submenus of submenus. The UI design isn't dense enough, so a bunch of info is just missing.

> refuse to learn the macOS/gnome paradigm

The difference here is I can easily replicate what macOS and gnome have going in KDE. Because KDE is flexible, and those aren't. Why would I though, when I can instead abuse KDE for efficiency gains in workflows? I'd much rather do that.

[westtan]

I personally think that the development experience on Mac is better. I have complained about the poor development environment you mentioned before, but I successfully solved it with some new tools. On Mac, you can use Servbay or mamp to solve this problem. Servbay:https://servbay.com

[ActorNightly]

>and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed

You can do it in Linux with scripts. I had it on my old laptop when I had Manjaro on it. Basically disable any action on script close, then write a custom service that listens for an event and puts the computer to sleep. Only thing is you have to press the power button to wake it, but it worked well.

In general, I have been using work issues Macs, and I tend to agree - they are pure shit. I wouldn't even call them good hardware. People seem to forget how mac thought it was a good idea to make the esc button a virtual one on the touchbar. I had 3 work replacements, first one fried chip due to an "incompatible" usbc hub, the other 2 started swelling batteries. In every single case, I ended up losing a small amount of work I haven't backed up (like a shell script), since you can't replace the hard drives.

Currently on the latest iteration of MBP 14 inch, the hardware seems good so far. Battery life claims are overrated - with slack, bunch of browser tabs and VSCode I get max 4 hours, but to be fair, this is the lightest laptop that Ive had that can do that (I used to have a much larger Thinkpad that could do CAD for 4 hours on battery)