[pprotas]

Not directly related to the topic at hand, but it amazes me how Dutch healthcare insurance does not cover dental care by default, and you have to get an extra package for that. As if dental health is not part of my regular health? Why are teeth treated differently from the rest of the body?

[andsens]

Here’s a good answer that tracks with what my parents, who are dentists, told me: https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/s/H4MsnWKatM

> For the longest time, surgeons, dentists and optometrists weren't part of the medical profession. You'd have a barber who could give you a shave or pull your teeth, or a butcher who could cut up a hog, or cut off your gangrenous leg. Optometrists were craftsmen who made the spectacles in their shop. Doctors were University educated in Latin and Greek to read ancient medical texts and despised the uncouth yokels.

> Surgeons muscled their way into the medical profession, originally with the help of the Royal Navy, who only had space for one or two people in charge of both cutting off legs and looking after crew health on their ships.

> Dentists and optometrists never did, so they started their own universities, certification boards, etc. By the time they became respectable enough for people to try to merge them with the medical establishment, in the 1920s, they had no desire to give up their independence.

> The first insurance policies were private contracts with groups of doctors and the system developed from there.

Details vary from country to country of course, but the gist of it generally holds true.

[bonoboTP]

Note that "optometrist" is distinct from "ophthalmologist", which is the actual eye doctor. The optometrist job is only about fitting glasses and contacts for near/farsightedness, while ophthalmologists can treat all manners of eye diseases.

And the final form of dentists, oral-maxillofacial surgeons are an all in one and have to study general medicine, surgery and dentistry.

[razakel]

An optician fits lenses, an optometrist measures your vision (and can refer you to an ophthalmologist if they spot something unusual).

[matwood]

A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon and says he's basically a carpenter.

[mauvehaus]

I once made the mistake of observing to my dentist that every tool he was using to fill my cavity looked like a smaller version of something I could buy at Home Depot, to which he cheerfully responded: "yup!" and carried on drilling.

[MVissers]

Doc here. They are basically carpenters. They us drills and saws and hammers and stuff.

[lesuorac]

Image removing somebody's leg without a saw. You just gunna twist it like thumbtack or clay until it separate?

[itishappy]

For a good time (citation needed) you can find clips online. Jaw surgery was particularly eye opening.

[psunavy03]

This is a perfect case to illustrate that while knowledge is power, ignorance is bliss.

[trashface]

In the US it is the same. The result is many people do not have dental insurance, and even if you do it often doesn't pay for much. Even our medicare (for old people) doesn't cover it. Thus some people cynically refer to teeth as "luxury bones".

[wrycoder]

In my experience (average teeth), dental insurance doesn't pay out enough to cover the premiums, and it's not worth the bother.

[cruffle_duffle]

For private dental insurance yes. It almost never makes sense to get private dental insurance and it’s almost always better to pay out of pocket.

I mean think about it from the insurer’s point of view. The only reason you’d ever get “the platinum” dental plan is if you were planning to use it. And it isn’t like you have that many “dental emergencies” if you have healthy teeth. If you don’t have healthy teeth you’d already know it when you pick out the insurance plan, so of course you’d get the upper tier.

The only scenario where it makes sense is if your employer picks up a healthy portion of the premium, in which case you are basically getting dental care subsidized by your employer. In that case you’ll likely come out ahead because you knew in advance pretty much how much dental care you’d need.

The same goes for vision care, really. You know in advance how many contacts, glasses and eye exams you’ll need. It isn’t really an insurable thing. If your employer pays for most of the premium, it’s employer subsidized eyewear & contacts for you!

…of course the math does change a bit when you have to pick the same type of plan for a family. In that case it’s time to bust out a spreadsheet and do the math to see the optimal course.

[ipqk]

It's also tax-payer subsidized (i.e. regressive, because it's mostly higher-income people that get dental insurance) because it's money from your employer that you or your employer don't have to pay taxes on.

[bonoboTP]

Not sure about Dutch, but in Germany and many other countries, basic dental care is included in the default public health insurance. But it's basic. So it won't be necessarily beautiful, the color may look less nice, they may pull out teeth that could be saved with more money etc. But indeed since it's part of the body, you can get it fixed to a basic level.

[Vinnl]

What's extra fun is that that insurance only covers treatments to a fairly low amount, just slightly higher than the price of your regular checkups.

(That said, I believe dental issues that are the result of e.g. accidents do get covered by the default care package.)

[ipqk]

I've been self-employed for years now (USA), and never buy dental insurance, because it's not really insurance, it's basically a non-taxable way for companies to give their employees extra money. Buying it as self-employed persons is basically just giving the "insurance" companies your own money.

[kbelder]

Isn't medical insurance the same? On average, the sum benefit you get from insurance is less than the total amount you pay.

[red-iron-pine]

Canada too. Some rumblings about it at the Federal level, but we'll see if that changes.

Apparently teeth are luxury bones

[amluto]

It’s an interesting case study in the US. Want to see a doctor for a minor issue? Good luck knowing the price in advance. Want to see a dentist? Ask for pricing on the phone, and you’ll get it.

[DowagerDave]

Not my experience in Canada. I went around to dentists and asked for their rates and none of them gave me the equivalent of a take-out menu for basic procedures. Why not?