[TeeWEE]

This results in me trusting Tesla less.

If this was fake, how do we know the robovans were not remotely operated? They might as well be too to get the stock price up?

There is no way to know. I am really doubting Tesla now. It wouldn’t surprise me that, in order to prevent mishaps during the event, everything is remotely operated…

People will say: that’s not true. But where did Tesla clearly specify this upfront?

I saw the initial fullscreen disclaimer. But that might also apply to the robovans right?

[godelski]

  > how do we know the robovans were not remotely operated? 

How do you even know they were anything? It is fairly easy to mock up a concept vehicle (I mean it is still a lot of work, but nowhere near what it takes to build an actual one). You can build the shell and interior and put it on any chassis you want.

And let's be real, that robovan couldn't survive a pothole. If you watch the video of people walking out it does not look like the clearance is meaningfully different than their shoes. It is also suspicious that it doesn't seem to rise much after all the people get off. I don't have good angles from that video, so just a flag but not enough to conclude without more evidence (but this is exactly what you'd see if they built it like you do a parade float).

For the robots, I thought it was obvious they were teleoperated. Just the way they talked with people was far too natural.

Don't get me wrong, Tesla and SpaceX have done some great things. But how many times can you c̶r̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶l̶f̶ promise self-driving vehicles next year before people stop trusting you all together? I get you gotta hype (but do we? and how much?) but you gotta fulfill those promises. In 2015 he promised FSD in 2017, in 2016 he said <2018, in 2017 he said 3 but no more than 6 mo, then later that year said 2 years, and I think it's been "next year" ever year since. It's a hard problem but you can only over promise so much. And over promising like this just makes him seem like either a conman or out of touch/naive.

[godelski]

Honestly, it feels like faking demos is the status quo in tech right now. I can perfectly understand "illustrative" demos where you're clear that this is what you're imagining, but if you say this is how it works -- or heavily imply or demonstrate under very limited conditions while implying this is what you can expect -- it is no wonder so many people have low sentiment around tech. But do we really have to do it this way? If you need smoke and mirrors to get funding I'm not convinced that the smoke and mirrors ever stops. (and why are big players doing this? Google doesn't need funding. You're playing with fire)

[philistine]

Look at the first reveal of Cybertruck versus what shipped. Those vans are going to look like crap.

[godelski]

Yeah with Elon (and anything "AI" (note: I'm an ML researcher)) it's now "I'm believe it when I see it" because there's too much over promise and under delivery.

Honestly, I'm not even super pissed at the start-ups that do this because it's "ride or die" for them. But I'm more pissed at big players doing this and experts in fields who push the over hype. Who retweet demos that are obvious fakes. It creates a lot of distrust because there's no clear "trusted authority". Sure, authority shouldn't be the only reason to trust but we can't be experts in everything (there's always trustworthy experts but good luck average person with no domain knowledge differentiating them). The system doesn't work without trust. I just hope this is recognized before it gets catastrophic. Because it is a global phenomena

[block_dagger]

After reading the Isaacson biography, it’s clear to me Elon is not a stable or trustworthy person. The evidence continues to mount.

[trog]

after reading the actual words he writes himself and publishes them for the world to see I came to the same conclusion

[ActionHank]

When people tell you who they are, listen.

[zo1]

I find this thread disturbing, and with 0 examples as to why you guys think that about him. Like what are these things he's written and said.

[philistine]

Do you think you look convincing, trying to pretend you're not aware of Elon Musk's reputation?

He's literally the richest person on Earth. It's as if you're pretending you don't know what Santa Claus is about.

I've heard of Santa Claus, but what does he do exactly?

[zo1]

I know who he is, what are you going on about? Why don't you give me some examples of why you think he's a bad person?

[threatofrain]

Elon Musk was insulted over the internet by an emergency worker during a deadly rescue of children trapped in a flooded cave, and he responded by accusing the rescue worker of pedophelia. Elon doubled down repeatedly on the claim, such as by later clarifying that by pedophile he meant sex with young Thai boys.

He also hired an investigator to try and find any dirt on the rescue worker. Now he says this is just his way of having fun.

Anyways, you mentioned something about being disturbed. Please do continue.

[me_me_me]

> He also hired an investigator to try and find any dirt on the rescue worker. Now he says this is just his way of having fun.

Let me translate it for Musk fans. He repeatedly tried to ruin a life of a hero, because he felt insulted. Its also fun.

[ActionHank]

There are literally dozens of examples, but not a single one will dissuade you from your pearl clutching behaviour when your bff billionaire needs defending.

[mike_hearn]

I've also read the biography. It's clear that he's stable and trustworthy enough to run multiple large companies, assemble a loyal force of allies who follow him around to his different ventures, a force that includes multiple family members, and win long term government contracts.

The conclusion Isaacson himself reached is that Musk has an extraordinary need for intensity and challenge, to the extent that he becomes uncomfortable and unhappy if there isn't something big riding right on the edge of going spectacularly wrong. This is a trait that most people don't have, and it's ideal for doing the kinds of things he does. But don't mistake that need for intensity for being unstable or dishonest.

[consteval]

Au Contraire, don't mistake drive and ambition for being a good person. It's not uncommon for highly successful people to be awful. Typically, you need to be bone headed, rude, highly opinionated. Often you need to lie and steal.

Just because Musk has financial success does not mean he isn't awful. In fact, financial success is probably one of the worst indicators of being a person of high integrity.

[mike_hearn]

I didn't mention "being a good person" anywhere, that's not the question at hand largely because I don't think it's a usefully complex way to think about people.

[consteval]

Ok, replace that word with stable and trustworthy, which you did say. I get very frustrated with people who play pedantic games. I know you understand what I'm saying. You're not being clever by doing this. All you're showing is that you don't have an argument or any useful thoughts to add, but you love the sound of your own voice, so you'll butt in with pedantic bullshit. It doesn't make you look smart; it makes you look pathetic and conceited.

[baxtr]

Interesting. How did you come to this conclusion? Any specific thing or rather the overall impression after reading the book?

[jojobas]

You can't be serious. Musk is under investigation for manipulating stock prices back years ago. Anything shown on these events must be assumed fake until proven otherwise.

[tim333]

For 420 joking around on Twitter.

[jojobas]

If anything, that's an aggravating circumstance, not an excuse.

[dawnerd]

They still haven’t shipped the new roadster despite taking a pretty huge investment from customers for it.

[me_me_me]

less?

The full self driving was one year away for 15 years now.

Batteryswap charging, beating fuel pump station demo - clearly fake.

Tesla Truck beating rail - few trucks made to carry potato chips/crisps ie 99% air.

Solar roof tiles.

Optimus being used in Tesla factories.

The bus had an inch of clearance. What kind of road that prototype was designed for. Besides the wheels had tires painted over gold to look better. Lookup the pictures.

Do you even remember tesla roadster? Its coming out next year, trust me bro.

Cybertruck... more like clusterfuck. Offroad truck brickable by a carwash.

How do people have trust in any claims by Musk?

[baxtr]

Ever heard of "fake it till you make it"?

[tim333]

Musk did say the vehicles were fully autonomous. He didn't say that for the robots.

I kind of expected them not to have human like robot AI or driving yet but the robo taxi surprised me by not seeming very practical. Would you want to be in an machine learning controlled vehicle where the doors rise up and probably can't be opened without computer assistance? Driven by software known for crashing into fire trucks and the like? At least Waymos have proper doors and backup lidar/radar to stop them hitting things.

[skeledrew]

No need for doubt. There's no reason to remotely operate the van since it's a vehicle like the car, and it is already known that they have mostly functional FSD from the many owners driving Tesla cars these past years.

[IntelMiner]

>mostly functional FSD from the many owners driving Tesla cars these past years

Given the staggering amount of mishaps that have been showcased, I would dispute this

[tim333]

Also they still have drivers in the Las Vegas tunnels I think which is something crying out for automation.

[consteval]

The Las Vegas tunnels are crying out to be destroyed and replaced with something less stupid.

[skeledrew]

Yes there have been many mishaps, a large portion caused by owners not following instructions, such as to pay attention to the road. But all those mishaps still don't hold a candle to how many mishaps happen daily due to human error/negligence. And the rate of automated mishaps have steadily decreased over time as the fleet learns (unlike with humans), making amount of mishaps an invalid metric.