[padraigf]

I meditate a good bit, an hour a day, and it doesn't stop thoughts arising, so I've had some time to think about this.

My guess is, it's just an evolutionarily useful thing, for your brain to keep pinging you about various things.

It doesn't mean of course that meditation is not useful. But you want to have control over these thoughts. Without a meditative practice, it's all too easy to allow your consciousness to be consumed by these impulses (which can lead you astray).

[MrMcCall]

The best we can do with them is to "pay them no mind", i.e. just let them pass though us and then into the void of non-effect. The important understanding is that we can choose to act upon them or ignore them. Ignoring negative impulses is essential for developing compassion as a way of life, and doing so is no less than warfare, the most important we can ever undertake. Of course, if the impulse is "you left the burner on", you should make sure it's not going to cause a fire! Discernment of the flavors of streams that present themselves to our consciousness is sublime and the work of our lifetime.

I made the Bhodisattva Vow nearly 30 years ago, and am now a very happy person with a very happy family, though we have lived in poverty for ~15 years now. Ask me how ;-)

Side note: I lived with yoga practioners and know of the possible dangers therein, so I highly suggest that you add a mantra of positivity to your practice. My experience is that the best are the various two syllable names of our Creator, to accompany your heartbeat. Such mantras are the best baseline for us to fall back into within the busyness of this 21st Century life, but choose what makes you feel happy, for happiness is within the grasp of our every choice.

With love and friendship.

[desertraven]

How?! Sometimes I feel a family is a path to more busy-brained activity. Less inclination to actually look what the mind is doing at a given moment. So I’m interested in that. But also logistically, what is a life of poverty for you, and how did you come to achieve it?

[MrMcCall]

Well, first off, let me just say I've been busy-brained my entire life. What I can say about that is that how we tune our heart is far more important than dealing with our thoughts. Sure, disposing of negative thoughts by not adding energy to them is an important in-the-moment aspect of the spiritual path, but that is really just about letting them go into nothingness at their appearance. One of the great (IMO) teachings of Buddhism is the notion of non-attachment, and, while an excellent strategy for addiction (though non-trivial in implementation), it is more easy to apply to the stray thoughts that are projected into our headspace. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it is best to just let them go, but I say that as someone who has already begun the process of heart transformation, so I've got some protection in that area via the very nature of how our hearts are transformed, which happens in lockstep with transforming how our mind and perception deals with our world and the events we experience.

Heart transformation is the process of cleansing and purifying our soul's heart of its susceptibility to vice, thus transforming it by stages into being solely a conduit of virtuous action. Even a person who has achieved a 100% virtuous soul, where they no longer act upon vicious ("towards vice") impulses will still have intrusive thoughts that suggest they perform acts of a selfish, vice-oriented nature -- they will simply no longer be inclined to act upon them. This is why I do not put much emphasis on our thoughts, as they never end. What we can put an end to is their ability to actually affect our resulting behaviors, by doint practices that physically transform our beings moral compass. Without carrying out an impulse towards vice, we have stamped out their negativity in the real world, which is what sin/selfishness really is and is the sole source of negativity in the world. If the thoughts try to persist in our headspace, we must simply return to our mantra to drown them out; if that is not effective, then that could be indicative of physical pollution in the body, which I would suggest fasting and prayer to the Creator to help remove. My feeling is that such a problem is usually (to my knowledge) a by-product of having not taken the most important step in the spiritual path, which the rest of this reply concerns.

At some point, most every person will be presented with the opportunity to beseech our Creator to help effect their spiritual transformation. Then, and only then, is our heart turned towards that Unfathomable It, and our transformation really begins. This is where our repetition of some sacred mantra literally "enlightens" our soul's heart, filling it with sacred light which replace its ability to conduct suggestions to vice with their opposite tendency to be amenable to suggestions of virtue. What used to be a susceptibility to hatred becomes, by (usually) gradual degrees, an affinity to love, to name but a single of the vice/virtue pairs in the human heart. This is a literal enlightenment of the soul's heart, where we are purified by degrees until, should we see the path to its end, we become immune to negative suggestions towards selfish behavior and become true servants of goodness, and are finally authorized to become a teacher of students.

I am certainly not at that level, but I can share the teachings I have learned and the successes I have had in my life so far, yet I am not authorized to take on students. It's not that I feel I would act selfishly or betray my students, but I would not want to make any mistakes that would inadvertently lead a person to vice, thereby accruing negative karma for us both. No, there is a final graduation for such a teacher, and that is to spiritually see the Creator in its glory from what Bob Marley calls "Mount Zion". It is also mentioned in Castaneda, and MLK experienced this right before he was martyred, and is referenced in the Beatitude "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." They are few in this world, but they are always available for every culture/language, to unerringly lead the seekers of truth to the goodness we are each capable of, should we choose the endeavor. I'm pretty certain that such a one has achieved why the Buddhists call "Buddha Nature". Each form of religion (whose source is God, not selfish men such as Hubbard) has teachers of this Nature, who serve only God by serving the seekers of truth and goodness.

Each person has their own path, destined to join up with a specific path of spiritual practice, and if we choose to undertake submission to the Divine Will of Love, we will be guided to an appointed Teacher of Buddha Nature, whatever it is called in that religion's nomenclature. Finding our specific path and requisite Teacher is part of the spiritual path. It all begins with begging the Creator to begin that transformation by taking our Spirit (conscience) back into Itself so that the heart of our energy body (soul, trapped within our body while we are awake) can be cleansed and purified of its vice-conducting nature so that it shines like the Spirit (which is of pure nature, but is not our own, being just a guide to counterbalance our soul's tendency to vice). This is the mystery behind the 1st Beatitude "Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs shall be the Kingdom of God."

Making such a wish, with ALL one's heart, to the Creator to achieve Buddha Nature, will effect the beginning of such changes. It is a struggle to see that path to its end and be fully purified of our various tendencies to vice/selfishness, but is the most important step we can take. It is also the beginning of being impervious to the suggestive thoughts towards negativity we all encounter in this spirual environment we inhabit. Yes, most people are ignorant of this struggle -- called by Sufi mystics the "Great Jihad", i.e. the person versus their inclination towards selfishness -- and is called by Castaneda's Don Juan "the path with heart", but it is fulfilling beyond expression.

The path of love is uniting across all humanity, within an effortful vision for harmony and peace across all sentient creatures and the Earth herself. It is forgiving and gentle for those not yet as far upon the path as we have been granted grace enough to reach, but it is also uncompromising for those who refuse peace and instead fight against it and its abiding compassion for others, and who choose mischief in order to manifest their selfish desires via lies and oppression of others, and who take pleasure in -- or just care not one whit about -- the misery of others. History is rife with examples of the deeds and nature of the dark-hearted fools who serve the enemy of peaceful harmony for all mankind.

My mind has been quiet for all of 1.5 seconds in my entire life. It was just after I decided to contemplate what my (as-yet-unfounded) company's mission statement would be. After that brief pause, it came to me: "Lasting peace and happiness for ALL human beings." I understand that to have come to me as a result of my having made the Bodhisattva Vow some years before, then having joined with Sufis, first Jewish who then led me to Muslim Sufis. There are many of us who have hearts tuned to this goal to end suffering across this magnificent Earth, by uniting our hearts in that one communal goal. Pray to our Creator with all your being to begin this transformation and your meditative practice will grow more powerful and you will transcend your concern with stray thoughts into the realm of Right Action with proper discernment and an abiding peace in the midst of our eternal struggle to manifest selfless light in this ocean of selfish darkness.

Peace be with you. I am at your service. Thank you for inspiring me this day. I love you and wish you all success in your endeavors, for that is what this universe and its Unfathomable Creator wishes for you, but It awaits your choosing It. By Its grace have my family become an island of happiness in a sea of miserable selfishness that plagues the good people of our world. Seek our Creator's path for your enlightenment each and every day and you will be helped even more than you already are. And always return to your mantra, in the small moments in the busyness of your day.

[MrMcCall]

Well, what I call poverty is merely the American technical definition for the term; it bears no resemblance to what most other countries of the world would call poverty, e.g. the favelas of Brasil, most of Africa, etc. As such, we have EBT (formerly called Food Stamps) that we use to pay for some food each month; as well, we live in a subsidized apartment so our three-bedroom is below market rate, though in a polluted area of the city (via both nearby traffic and nearby commercial businesses), where most children haven't had the quality of diet and environment we take care to provide for ours. My education, predilection towards curiosity about scitech and better-living, and luck of good schooling (G&T with an AppleII in 6th grade) via large 80s defense budgets has also provided me with a lifetime of education (via internet since 1988 with no TV) such that I used our pandemic stimulus money to buy two $600 RabbitAir high-quality air purifiers (they are fantastic!) and some plants. That's just one example, though an important one.

What I can say is that creation has provided what we needed, first through my previous life as a successful programmer, but since, through my wife's love for and excellence in cooking, while I am an attentive home-schooler (it is easy in our state; an unexpected and rare benefit of fundamentalist thinking) and home IT specialist, keeping the education and fun flowing, but in simple but meaningful dimensions. Plus, we take the kids to wonderful parks where good air and nature can be found. Most importantly, we have taught them how to be appreciative for the life and perspective we have. We are not particularly religious at home (I mostly keep my practices to myself, as I am loath put any kind of pressure on them in that dimension), except in my making sure to point out where compassion provides great outcomes and ignorance of compassion causes unhappiness both in the small and large. My wife and I have demonstrated generosity to strangers and the teaching has really taken with both the now-teenagers, who are beloved by their peer groups for their kindness, talent, intelligence and humor.

Don Juan (Carlos Castaneda's teacher) says that, in life, what we choose to NOT do is the dominant factor, which I have found to be true, through both experience and written wisdom. As such, the kids have been taught the perils of common negative behaviors, such as: alcohol and other drugs, sexual promiscuity, being belligerent to others, being ignorant of the truth of karma, compassion, and truth.

As Sufis, we do not espouse the superiority of any form of religion, nor do we speak ill of those who have not embraced religion in their lives. The only measure of a person is how they treat others, and we are not to treat them poorly even in that event, though we may have to intervene to prevent harm to innocents. We have not had to do that in our American lives, thankfully, but a study of history has impressed the reality of oppression (and necessity of countervaling compassion) upon them. This included studying the life of Frederick Douglass (we listened to the entire free audiobook for the 900pg 2019 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography together for 5-6hrs/day 5-6days/wk over perhaps three weeks), and we boys have listened to Stephen E. Ambrose's two WWII books, D-Day and Citizen Soldier, multiple times (as my son played chess, and daughter worked on her skills in various crafts, especially sewing full poofy-sleeve dresses and shirts and skirts as well as amigurumi (cultural inheritances of my wife's non-American culture, tho I have crafty Aunts)). They both love the Band of Brothers book and miniseries, and we have together listened to both The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings books in full multiple times, as well as the latter five books of my favorite author William Gibson, whose works are filled with heart and enough rock'n'roll grit to convey that regular people have sex, are sometimes trans, are sometimes gay, and are completely human while being both imperfect yet good people, worthy of respect, no better or worse than us.

All this is to say that we have encouraged their own interests and creativity by providing lots of legos (we have the Unimog!), books, art materials, and shown lots of interesting videos from Uncle Dave (Attenborough) (thanks 2010ish bittorrent documentary sites) as well as Veritasium and lots of NHKOnline (Design Talks Plus, now called Design Stories). We also watch Futbol (soccer) highlights, Sumo (such a different culture), and Judo (for its badassery and fundamental respect). What is important here is that they don't have their own internet-connected devices, but have access to them in our living room, where I live and exist. My son plays online chess and loves his chess club and tournaments. They both have used study.com and Khan Academy for their academic requirements, so they are not without internet access, but only in the service of curiosity and learning and fun, under our loving gaze.

My only hard and fast rule here is that there can be no bickering, and there truly is none, because we respect each other and truly care for each other. The key is that the true value of compassion at home is to take it out into the world every chance we get. They know that we love and serve them, rarely ask them to serve us, and that when we ask them to serve the family (by, for example, my son being in charge of doing the dishes), we do so only because someone needs to do it, and that it's only for the good of the family. Gratefulness is a antidote to our complaining human nature.

All of this (long-winded, I know) is to say that how one serves one's family is the root and trunk of inculcating compassion into one's society because they will take those values/virtues into it, while educating them about the perils of acting on one's vicious (vice-tending, as opposed to virtuous) and selfish tendencies. History and current events, when portrayed in the honest light of virtue/vice evaluation, is an excellent means of educating the entire society, firstly via our two new members. Our daughter's new ability to vote in this coming election is a fruit of our tireless labors.

We have also demonstrated to them a loving husband-wife combination, where we have occasionally argued, and where we rule together by consensus, such is the nature of marriage, where apology and positive self-evolution is required for every person's personal growth and the success of the community, and having a leader who values the opinions of everyone while recommending but not commanding the best course of action is also IMO the best model of society. We should each do the best thing because it's what is best for everyone -- at least we should try, that is.

My wife and I decided to have children to honor the wisdom teachings of universal compassion and service to humanity, to end all suffering and serve the true happiness of everyone, in truth and kindness. We have been very successful, though certainly not perfect and yet also certainly absolutely uncommon in America, or anywhere as far as I can see. This has largely been due to my ability to be a stay-at-home dad of creative bent, not sequestered by myself in some bedroom on a Zoom call or walling myself off. It is kindof a sacrifice, but I've not been very money-oriented in my life, and, though I have been able to earn a good living from being a badass programmer at times early in our marriage, my inability to prioritize money over human beings not only kept me out of the manager-class, but put me in direct confrontation with those souless bastards and their entire intent and modus operandi.

I'll address the rest of your comment in a separate reply. I need a break and this one is loooong-winded already ;-)