[homebrewer]

Yeah, no. Speaking of "personal discipline" makes it obvious you have never seriously dealt with addicts. Solving it long term is basically impossible for some of us; pretty sure because of how our brains are wired at the physical level. I know all the (popular) science, I discussed it with a good doctor whom I personally know, I know you're supposed to change your habits long-term (and how you're supposed to do it), and I recently lost 15 kgs of weight for the fourth time in my life. The longest time I managed to maintain healthy weight was maybe 3-4 years. If Ozempic (or whatever) actually solves this, I'm ready to go on it for the rest of my life.

I also live in a "vodka belt" and know several alcoholics who tried very hard to maintain their "personal discipline". It's impossible for most of them -- almost all relapse in a few years' time.

[zero-sharp]

I'm one of those people who has repeatedly lost weight by managing food intake. I'm talking about losing over 30 pounds, more than once. It might have been three times. Oh yea and I've kept it off for close to a decade now. I didn't use drugs. At times I used a food scale to manage portions. At times I literally just microwaved broccoli for a snack/meal. I still do it periodically if I'm feeling self-conscious. Does it suck? Yep. Have you guys ever tried those things?

I mention this because I feel like you need somebody who has gone through the experience to actually have credibility in the conversation, to tell you that personal discipline is a real thing that can achieve results. I think it's ridiculous how quickly you dismissed the parent post.

[phil21]

I've gone through that experience multiple times as well. Also over 30lbs each time. Also having kept it off for years, although not quite a decade for my longest period. COVID was my last regression, as it was for many who lost it and maintained it the way we both did.

The GLP-1's are a game changer. I will never lose weight the "white knuckle" way again. I can, and I have proven it to myself and others. It's not complicated as you say - it's quite simple.

It's simply such a giant imposition on your life and mental well being that I am thankful others won't have to go through it as their only option in the future. The sheer chunk it takes out of my executive function means I can't perform nearly as well at other tasks in life. The GLP-1 class of drugs make it trivial in comparison. Like a performance enhancer for a diet.

I also have worked out a hell of a lot more taking Tirzepatide than I ever did counting calories on a food scale. This is because I feel so much better it's not even a comparison - primarily mentally, but also physically due to the other positive side effects the drug has associated with it. Plus I don't feel guilty when I go out with friends to a burger joint - I eat half and feel perfectly satiated, no guilt or "cheat day" required. My energy levels are not comparable. I have much more time in my day available for other activities, such as keeping appointments with my personal trainer at the gym or taking 6 miles of walks per day.

Losing weight and maintaining an active healthy lifestyle doesn't have to "suck" any more.

I feel like you need someone who has gone through both experiences to actually have credibility in this conversation. Willpower isn't a special trait, it's not something to lord over other people.

[zero-sharp]

>Willpower isn't a special trait, it's not something to lord over other people.

I'm not special. Look at his post. He quickly dismisses the idea of personal discipline and asserts that keeping weight off is "basically impossible" in the first two lines. What kind of bullshit is that? Because we don't know what it's like? Well I do.

[phil21]

I worded that poorly and deleted a paragraph below it since it maybe was wandering into places I didn’t want it to.

Reading on the topic of self control and personal discipline, and talking with friends with phds on the subject of addiction medicine changed my mind and perspective on it. I can white knuckle pretty much anything - so can most people if properly motivated. I no longer find that interesting or a point of pride.

When you look into addiction at a deeper level you find people who are sober from their drug of choice, but utterly miserable. This is similar to your description of having to lose and maintain weight through self control. The “it sucks” part. I no longer feel it needs to suck, just like a former alcoholic will tell you how it’s relatively easy to be sober but miserable. The hard part is figuring out how to do it while being happy and not constantly in a battle with yourself. I see what you describe as someone who avoids alcohol by not visiting establishments that serve it and keeping it out of the house.

What I realized is that I don’t need to do that with food - there is help available. I’m now like the former alcoholic that can be around booze without a single thought of taking a sip. It’s an entirely different life experience and I’m not miserable or using a portion of my brain to remain in control.

I have done it both ways and the GLP-1s effectively saved my life. Not literally - but it’s now a life worth living vs just surviving.

I firmly believe these drugs will be as society changing as antibiotics were.

[zero-sharp]

Sure, I'm proud of being able to do it. But it's not an ego/pride thing this in this conversation. I don't know how to say this politely, but I think it's dangerous when our own failures warp our world view with regards to possibilities and truth. "I couldn't do it, so it's impossible" Well maybe? But maybe not.

And you're right. I've had to make lifestyle changes where I avoid certain venues. I don't have fast food. I've had chips maybe a handful of times in the past several years. You can call it a battle, but I wouldn't say I'm miserable on a daily basis. I just got used to it.

Using drugs to improve your quality of life is incredibly valuable. At the same time, I still believe that lifelong dependence to drugs should be avoided. I anticipate negative societal and psychological outcomes in the future. But I have to run.

[theshackleford]

You only know what it’s like for you

You know nothing of anyone else’s experience and pretending otherwise is comical at best.

[zero-sharp]

>You only know what it’s like for you You know nothing of anyone else’s experience and pretending otherwise is comical at best.

Well we're all technically different, so nobody knows what it's like to be you. So literally no advice or data can actually apply to you. Those scientific studies studied other people, right? Cool world we've created.

[mrcrumb1]

At what point are you willing to concede that it might not be feasible for someone that isn't you? If it were 10% harder do you think you would have stuck through it? 50% harder? The numbers say the proportion of people who are successful is very small and there are sure a lot of people who are trying

Edit: I'll add that I've successfully shed 100lbs through discipline before. With the life I currently as caretaker for my son I don't nearly as much room in my life for the mental overhead that sort of change in diet required me in the past.

[zero-sharp]

I can imagine it being a lot harder. There are all sorts of arrangements that either enable or reinforce the types/volume of food that you eat. Still, I think people should try to be aware of their own situation and try to identify those factors that promote weight gain. Even if it was harder, I still think it's inappropriate to say it's "basically impossible" and to deny common sense.

[mrcrumb1]

You talk about common sense and see a sea of people who are trying to lose weight (cdc says about half of adults in the US[1]) at very low success rates (<1% according to this study [2]) and think: they must be ignorant or not trying hard enough. I just don't really see how you could reasonably make that case.

1. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db313.htm#:~:te....

2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4539812/

[zero-sharp]

I don't really know what to tell you. Again, I understand weight loss can be extremely difficult. What's the conclusion you're trying to get me to accept?

Telling somebody that they're ignorant or not trying hard enough isn't exactly constructive. But neither is digging up studies trying to convince people that they can't achieve some level of fitness. It's science, but somebody else's failure doesn't determine yours. Again, common sense.

You need to examine your life and figure out what factors contribute to your weight gain. Is that already unreasonable?

[mrcrumb1]

I don't think the problem is that people don't know what is making them gain weight. If it were, I don't think the rates of obesity would be as high as they are. I'm not saying it's impossible; you've done it, I've done it. I'm saying that at some point you have to have reasonable expectations about what you can expect from people at large .