[tsimionescu]

Sure, there are inconveniences, but it is literally impossible to run a huge city any other way (I mean, other than fixed route large vehicle cramped public transport, be it busses, trains, trams etc). It is geometrically impossible to fit 20 million people on roads in cars during 1-3 hours when businesses start and end. Drivers make no difference, the problem is the form factor. This is not a technological problem, not even a physical problem, it's a problem of basic math.

[saturn8601]

Thats technically where the tunnels come in. I'm not saying its a solved problem im just saying that this real problem has obviously been considered.

[tsimionescu]

Yes, and the only solution has been found 200+ years ago: trains and other similar forms of public transport.

[saturn8601]

In the US and other places with low density, people just don't want public transit if they can avoid it. Its just not going to happen. Are you European? I ask because I constantly have europeans come on here and other places pushing public transit as the solution but people in the states just don't want it and they can't seem to internalize this.

[tsimionescu]

New York subways are pretty full too, so this is not a European vs US thing. It's just a matter of population density.

[saturn8601]

I made this same argument at CCC last year because a presenter was arguing for mandating buses in every country instead of EVs. When I pushed back they trotted out the example of NYC: a single exception whose own subway system is slowly collapsing due to legacy and graft.

Keep talking like this and you'll leave yourself baffled as to why society ends up disagreeing with you. If you look at the voting patterns of people not only in the Americas but also increasingly in Europe, they are already pushing back.

[tsimionescu]

On the contrary, cities everywhere are moving away from cars and towards more pedestrian infra and public transport. Plus, even in the USA, the biggest reason cities like LA or Houston don't have good public transport is that they are gigantic sprawls. More dense cities do have significant public transit options that people use.

[trilbyglens]

You do realize that tunnels under cities are literally the most expensive type of infrastructure possible to build?

[saturn8601]

Im not advocating for or against it. Only pointing out that this is the solution they are proposing.

[yread]

Even flying cars are a better (ok, less worse) solution than the stupid tunnels. But Musk is not selling those yet