[deathanatos]

Some of us care about harms to our fellow citizens, too? Just because a law might not impact me personally[1] doesn't stop me from going "no, this law is a bad law because it tramples on people's civil liberties."

The Golden Rule.

> it’s intellectually dishonest to act like a conservative doesn’t care about pregnant woman

No, it isn't. Several states have passed total abortion bans that have included, or end up effectively including, abortions for complications in which the pregnancy isn't viable, at all. This ends up harming the mother, for nothing. Cf. [2], [3].

> Why is that a bad thing? Where do you live? If you have liberal views on this, live in a liberal state.

Because fundamental human rights should be secured for all citizens, not just citizens of some states here or there. People should not be forced out of their home, uprooted for their families, just to secure basic rights, or worse, to simply remain alive.

> people don’t want to do the hard work of changing people’s views

The majority of Americans favor abortion.

> If you want to argue that Roe v Wade was the right way to advance abortion rights in the US — how would you feel if a Republican court in 4 years made abortion illegal country wide

Flipping judicial decisions is something that should be inherently done rarely and only with the utmost consideration — when we're certain the precedent is wrong. Otherwise, how can you argue that the system is just?

(The majority of Americans also disagree with Dobbs.)

[1]: They do impact me personally, but I do not think that is a requirement for people to engage in debate. Certainly, more people have a vote than are impacted by some policies, so it practically behooves me to engage them in debate, since their vote will indirectly determine whether such policies pass.

[2]: https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(22)00536-1/fulltext

[3]: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/12/29/1143823...

[jcranmer]

> They do impact me personally, but I do not think that is a requirement for people to engage in debate.

To emphasize this point:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[A famous quote by a German after the Holocaust, lamenting his inaction during the Nazi regime.]

I think it is incredibly crass and craven to assert that one needs to be personally affected by an issue to speak out on it.

[zero-sharp]

>one needs to be personally affected by an issue to speak out on it.

I don't think the poster is making that point. Did you see the response?

Look: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=41805263&goto=item%3Fi...

[jcranmer]

The reply said:

> If not, while you can give a damn, my point was that people are unable to disagree these days because they make everything so personal - as if you are in direct serious threat - when perhaps that is an exaggeration that is being caused by our media.

Which rather strikes me as finding it inappropriate to vociferously speak on an issue that doesn't directly affect them.

[orionsbelt]

Again, I wasn’t suggesting that one needs to be personally or directly affected to speak out about an issue. I was suggesting that it’s harder to have a reasoned debate on an issue when you are directly affected — emotions just run too high. So, my theory for why Americans are so divided and unable to have political disagreements these days is in part because the media is highjacking people’s emotions by making EVERY issue feel that way.

I always support people being passionate and vocal about what they believe in if it’s productive. If you want to go campaign or be an activist and support changes to abortion laws, great! But if you are unable to have a discussion or disagreement with your friend or neighbor, who is not making policy or effecting anything, without potentially getting so heated that you blow up the relationship, and doing that for every single political issue, then perhaps something is wrong in America and it’s worth examining what that is.