[MathMonkeyMan]

My dad was asking me a question about backing something up onto Google Drive, or saving space on some cloud storage account, or something.

He was using the mental model of files and folders -- that files exist and refer to stored bytes, and that there can be one or several copies of a file. There can be links to a file that take very little space relative to the file.

I had to tell him that I have no idea what sort of storage model these services expose, if any, and that the concept of a file system backed by a storage device is not the analogy that applications expose to their users these days.

He eventually understood, but I could feel his frustration -- that the mental model he had was really just chosen by a past moment in application design, and that what replaced it is nebulous and disempowering.

[username135]

Can you elaborate on what you told your father?

When i use google drive, the interface appears to be folder/file structure. Whether it is or is made to look that way is irrelevant, i suppose, as long as it works that way. I can also increase storage by downloading/deleting things so Im a bit flummoxed.

[layman51]

In my opinion, Google Drive is basically the same as the traditional file structure. Where it gets very confusing for people is when it comes to collaboration. Before 2020 or so, there was confusion around copying the same Google Doc so it appears in multiple locations, and making shortcuts to it instead. Look up stuff around the “Shift + Z” keyboard shortcut if you want to learn more.

[MathMonkeyMan]

I don't remember if he was trying to save space on his Google Drive or on his phone. His question was, mostly, that if he deleted files in one place, where would the space savings appear? I immediately thought of Windows' OneDrive and how it's sort of an automated rsync setup. I didn't know enough about his phone, which apps he was using, or about Google Drive to give an answer better than "I don't know, and I detect that some of your assumptions are probably wrong."

[NavinF]

I grew up before cloud storage was mainstream, but I never thought the new model was confusing.

- Google Drive caches recent files and downloads other files on demand. Just like iCloud Drive, MS OneDrive, etc.

- Deleting files will free up space on your Google account.

- Clicking the "clear offline files" button will free up space on device.

All these offering are quite similar with just a few extra features here and there

[ffsm8]

Google drive uses the same storage quota for other services like Gmail and Photos, these aren't visible from the drive directory structure

[mr_toad]

> the interface appears to be folder/file structure

It might look that way, but it doesn’t have the same features.

https://aws.amazon.com/compare/the-difference-between-block-...

[mch82]

It’s ridiculous how complicated it’s gotten to answer my parents’ questions about stuff like this. The old desktop metaphors are gone. Screens are difficult for older eyes to read. Every app has a cloud service. Really seems like huge step back in usability.

[dspillett]

> Screens are difficult for older eyes to read.

For my Dad, we got him a “simple phone” – it basically does calls and texts, has big buttons in pretty much the style of old Nokia phones but chunkier. The screen is larger and higher resolution than those, so the text is nice and clear. It works really well for him in terms of being able to cope with it with his eyes and getting the job done.

> Every app has a cloud service

And that phone doesn't run apps at all… For things beyond calls and texts¹ he uses a laptop, largely keeping with the files/folders metaphor and no extra apps.

----

[1] managing his banking, certain shopping though he often instead asks one of us to do that as he is wary or falling into scam sites, facebook for more passively getting news on what family a-far is getting up to, his collection of digital photos (he used to take a lot), and such

[peterkelly]

Google drive follows the files and folders model that your father was expecting.

[Suppafly]

It gets confusing when you use all google services though, because while google photos technically use your drive space, they aren't really exposed that way. Android generally gives you a warning that when you delete a photo that it's also being removed from your cloud storage too though. But google photos will also constantly prompt you to let it delete your local copies and only have the cloud copies, so you end up having no idea what they are actually doing. Just drive itself is pretty straight forward though since it's mostly separate from the phone and deleting from the phone has no bearing on what's on drive, unless you deleting from within the drives app itself.

[psnehanshu]

Come on! Google Photos is not confusing at all. It is very clear on what it does, but I may be biased.

[IIsi50MHz]

Try enabling Google Photos to automatically upload images from multiple devices to the same account.

If Google Photos is low on space, try deleting from Google Photos without causing it to delete from all other devices. Seems to require manually copying all those files to an untracked folder, then deleting from Google Photos.

Try managing which folders Google Photos syncs:

When it asks to add a newly found folder, the app doesn't give any way to find out where that folder is or what's in it, unless the folder's name only occurs once on the device.

Try removing folders from the app ("Whups, didn't mean to backup all the graphic assets of a random app that foolishly doesn't use 'nomedia'!"), where the folder name is not unique. It again gives nothing more than folder names and no indication of where they are or what's in them.

Try getting Google Photos to list where every file first came from, so you know where the originals are (for various reasons).

[psnehanshu]

I take photos on my phone, and they are automatically backed up. I can access them on all my devices, and I have them even when I change my primary phone, so I am happy. I only backup my camera photos, so I guess my needs are simple. So it suits my needs. I can disable it from backing up any other folders, so random photos don't end up in my library. I never needed to find out where a photo was backed up from, because I only care about my camera photos.