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by carapace 612 days ago
It wasn't recent by Internet time but when the debate on walrus operator drove out the BDFL that was the obvious break. Python has been circling the drain ever since. A lot of motion, yes, but to what end?

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Oh! How could I forget!? The creeps actually banned Tim Peters!
1 comments
zahlman 612 days ago
Just as a reminder, the BDFL supported the "walrus operator" and co-authored the PEP for it.
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nightpool 612 days ago
Yes? and as GP said, he stepped down because (as explained in the first line of his email) "Now that PEP 572 is done, I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions."
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zahlman 612 days ago
A lot of the time, people say things like "Python has been circling the drain ever since." referring to the implementation of the "walrus operator", to imply that they don't like the feature and that it was the first of a series of changes to the language that have made it progressively worse; and they often further imply that if only we still had the original leadership then we could avoid such damage to the language.

I was, in a sense, in that camp at the time, before I looked it up. I felt that the operator went against the spirit of the language by trampling on what was previously a strong, and clearly very conscious, separation between statements and expressions. And I misguidedly imagined, and lamented, that GvR was unable to keep it out of the language, being overruled by consensus.

I just want to make sure it's clear that things are not like that. Rather, the Python envisioned (nowadays, though not originally) by the original leadership includes PEP 572 - and probably also the large majority of what's been added since.

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carapace 611 days ago
Very good point and 'cheers!' for raising it.

It's not the "walrus operator" per se that's the problem, it's the change in project governance.

Python has been captured by bureaucracy and corporate interests. The way it's being improved-to-death is a symptom. The unceremonious eviction of Tim Peters indicates to me that the take-over is complete: the new guard feels comfortable throwing out the old guard, they expect that their power is such that no one will blink, and no one did. (No corporation withdrew support for them, the blow-back was all hot air.)

It would be interesting to know GvR's opinions of some of the new cruft, but it's not really relevant.

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