[lazide]

This is an entirely ridiculous argument. Who actually ‘writes the check’ is actually important in a discussion about who writes the check, despite the fungibility of money. Renters don’t pay the owners property taxes in the US, even if they pay rent. Full stop.

Why this matters is because in some cases, owners can end up ‘under water’ with even rent not covering property taxes in the US.

In other places, that may not be possible.

[eastbound]

No, really, it has been studied, taxes affects both supply and demand. It’s one of the first chapters of any microeconomics book.

[lazide]

you might want to actually read my comment. the details matter.

[arcticbull]

Well, I get charged sales tax when I buy something at a store, itemized on my receipt. But the store writes the check to the state, and I write the check to the store. Did I pay or did the store? And why does it differ from a renter? Are we splitting hairs over itemized vs unitemized receipts?

And what about a retail store in England where the VAT isn’t itemized? Did I pay or did the store?

[lazide]

No landlord in the US itemizes, or even lets you see the property tax they are paying anywhere they can control. You can dig it up if you know where to look though, usually, from public sources. Same with the landlords financing costs.

And it varies between much lower than you would expect, to much higher - and doesn’t generally change the amount they can charge in rent between the two scenarios. Though of course, landlords will go broke eventually if on average rent doesn’t exceed property taxes, finance costs, and other costs they pay on average.

Competitiveness/survival between landlords over time will often hinge on their ability to pick the best options and structure/time this well to minimize their costs while maximizing their returns. A much harder problem than I think anyone who isn’t in that game realizes.

Which is why successful property management and investment strategies vary quite a bit depending on these specific details, like who pays what, when, and under what circumstances.

So all I’m getting from what you’re saying is you don’t actually understand what you’re talking about concretely, and you’re going off a first year economics textbook instead of actual experience.

Am I correct, or not?

[arcticbull]

Could you answer my question about itemized vs unitemized sales taxes in the US vs UK and whether you think it relevant?

[lazide]

Of course it’s relevant to the business models, specific prices charged, marketing, and general economics.

In a way that means the details matter and you’ll get different end prices, even for the same nominal tax rate, depending on how it is applied.

For instance, when sales taxes are not shown at point of choice (on the shelves) they tend to not impact consumer behavior (US), where when they are (most of Europe), they do.

Which is also why in the US, retailers tend to fight efforts to include sales taxes into on-the-shelf prices. Because they know it will impact sales.

Just like in jurisdictions where renters pay/see property taxes, that impacts their choices, where in places they don’t, it doesn’t. At least in any specific, individual way.