[cm2187]

Well pretty much every other more recent language solved that problem.

[kccqzy]

Almost no programming language, perhaps other than Swift, solved that problem. Just use the article's examples as test cases. It's just as wrong as the C++ version in the article, except it's wrong with nicer syntax.

[zahlman]

Python's strings have uppercase, lowercase and case-folding methods that don't choke on this. They don't use UTF-16 internally (they can use UCS-2 for strings whose code points will fit in that range; while a string might store code points from the surrogate-pair range, they're never interpreted as surrogate pairs, but instead as an error encoding so that e.g. invalid UTF-8 can be round-tripped) so they're never worried about surrogate pairs, and it knows a few things about localized text casing:

    >>> 'ß'.upper()
    'SS'
    >>> 'ß'.lower()
    'ß'
    >>> 'ß'.casefold()
    'ss'

There are a lot of really complicated tasks for Unicode strings. String casing isn't really one of them.

(No, Python can't turn 'SS' back into 'ß'. But doing that requires metadata about language that a string simply doesn't represent.)

[crote]

But that's wrong. The uppercase for "in Maßen" ("in moderate amounts") is not "IN MASSEN" ("in Massen", meaning "in massive amounts").

[kccqzy]

Still breaks on, for example, Turkish i vs İ. It's impossible to do correctly without language information.

> (No, Python can't turn 'SS' back into 'ß'. But doing that requires metadata about language that a string simply doesn't represent.)

Yes that's my point. Because in typical languages strings don't store language metadata, this is impossible to do correctly in general.

[zahlman]

I'm not seeing anything in the Swift documentation about strings carrying language metadata, either, though?

[kccqzy]

This lowercase function takes a locale argument https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsstrin...

It looks like an old NSString method that's available in both Obj-C and Swift.

The casefold function is even older than that. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsstrin... Its documentation specifically includes a discussion of the Turkish İ/I issue.

[tedunangst]

But that's wrong. The upper case for ß is ẞ.

[cm2187]

C#'s "ToUpper" takes an optional CultureInfo argument if you want to play around with how to treat different languages. Again, solved problem decades ago.

[account42]

This is not a locale issue, it's a Unicode version issue. Which hightlights another problem with adding this to the base standard library.

[IncreasePosts]

That was only adopted in Germany like 7 years ago!

[kccqzy]

Well languages and conventions change. The € sign was added not that long ago and it was somewhat painful. The Chinese language uses a single character to refer to chemical elements so when IUPAC names new elements they will invent new characters. Etc.

[extraduder_ire]

Does unicode have space set aside for those new symbols to slot into? I know it's very rare, but it could get messy.

[Towaway69]

Isn't uppercase for ß just ß - i.e. it's its own uppercase character?

[bratwurst3000]

there shouldn’t be an uppercase version of ß because there is no word in the german language that uses it as the first letter. the german language didnt think of allcaps. please correct me if I am wrong. If written in uppercase it should be converted to SZ or the new uppercase ß…. which my iphone doesn’t have… and converting anything to uppercase SS isn’t something germany wants …

[account42]

> there shouldn’t be an uppercase version of ß because there is no word in the german language that uses it as the first letter. the german language didnt think of allcaps.

Allcaps (and smallcaps) has always existed in signage everywhere. Before the computing age, letters where just arbitrary metal stamps -- and just whatever you could draw before that. Historically, language was not as standardized as it is today.

[Towaway69]

I don’t think that Germany wants a capital ß or the German language requires one rather technology needs one to dot the eyes and cross the tees.

[account42]

Not generally no, but some applications used it that way because of ambiguity of upppercasing ß to SS - which is why ẞ was added.

[Towaway69]

On the other hand, the German language has existed for several hundred years without having a capital ß but now it needs one?

True capitalisation has always existed but even that didn’t seem to have required a capital ß - why now?

[tialaramex]

Rust will cheerfully:

    assert_eq!("ὀδυσσεύς", "ὈΔΥΣΣΕΎΣ".to_lowercase());

[Notice that this is in fact entirely impossible with the naive strategy since Greek cares about position of symbols]

Some of the latter examples aren't cases where a programming language or library should just "do the right thing" but cases of ambiguity where you need locale information to decide what's appropriate, which isn't "just as wrong as the C++ version" it's a whole other problem. It isn't wrong to capitalise A-acute as a capital A-acute, it's just not always appropriate depending on the locale.

[account42]

Is this

    assert_eq!("\u1F41δυσσεύς", "ὈΔΥΣΣΕΎΣ".to_lowercase());

or

    assert_eq!("\u03BF\u0314δυσσεύς", "ὈΔΥΣΣΕΎΣ".to_lowercase());

For display it doesn't matter but most other applications really want some kind of normalizatin which does much much more so having a convenient to_lowercase() doesn't buy you as much as you think and can be actively misleading.