[necrobrit]

The preference for 4 way stops in a country that otherwise prioritises traffic flow so much is really jarring. Traffic lights too to some extent.

About 5 years ago my wife an I were doing a California road trip. At one point on a relatively rural road -- I think it might have been Dry Creek road heading into Napa but cannae mind exactly -- we got stuck in traffic for around 45 minutes. We thought there must have been some huge accident or roadworks closing the road. But got the the end and nope... 4 way stop essentially letting one. car. through. at. a. time.

I distinctly remember exclaiming "why the f wasn't that a roundabout" after clearing. Funny that it is now one of my strongest memories of that trip haha.

[asib]

4-way stops are bizarre to me having grown up in the UK where roundabouts/intersections with priority given for one direction are trusted and reliable traffic-calming measures.

I think one of the reasons a 4-way stop might be introduced is to improve safety where there was previously a 2-way stop (that people would blow through). I came across this in Canada recently. All I can say is the UK has drastically lower traffic-related deaths than Canada [0] and I think I've seen 2-3 stop signs in my entire life. I imagine North America's pedestrian hostility is a piece of this puzzle.

Don't get me started on North American highway interchanges. The UK's roundabout junction system is far superior, in my opinion.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

[lupusreal]

Four way stops are common in lightly trafficked situations where the locals can't justify spending the money on anything but a few stop signs. For instance, the main street through a small town (<2k pop) might have traffic lights and maybe a circle for the one other major road it intersects, but where the two or three roads parallel to that intersect with other town roads, a four way stop makes the most sense. Most of the time a car gets to one, it will be alone. Since neither road is long and neither is expected to have fast cars anyway, a four way stop is the most natural and intuitive option way to sign it.

Four way stops are also common when two country roads of relatively equal weight intersect. There are so many roads like that, so many intersections, that the local government can't possibly afford lights or circles on all of them. If one of the roads is known to get substantially more traffic than the other than a two-way stop is usually used, but if it isn't obvious then a four way stop is the safe default. In these situations, pedestrians aren't a factor at all because the intersection is five miles away from a town and it's farmland on both sides of both roads. Virtually nobody is walking there, not even people walking their dogs (unpaved access roads are better for that anyway.)

[Symbiote]

I'm not sure why the four way stop "makes the most sense".

In Europe one road (perhaps arbitrarily) would be declared the main road, and the other road gets yield signs, or even just yield road markings (triangles).

[lupusreal]

If one is obviously a main road then it's a two way. If neither is, then it's a four way. If the intersection is lightly trafficked then there's not any reason not to make it a four way because it won't cause meaningful delays anyway. When a county has several hundred country road intersections that get a few dozen cars or less a day through them, it doesn't make sense to even spend time studying each one. Just throw up some stop signs and consider the matter resolved.

[zippothrowaway]

Or do what they do in the UK. For all of these, make them 'mini-roundabouts' which is literally a dot painted on the center of the road. You follow the rules of the roundabout without building one. Works just as efficiently as a four way stop with light traffic - actually more, since you don't need to stop if the intersection is empty.

[Symbiote]

And then every single car must stop. That's a huge waste of energy.

The European way requires half as many signposts, and at most half as much stopping and starting of cars.

[realityking]

Or, in the absence of any signage, it'd just be "right before left". Relatively common in the outskirts of cities where there isn't one road that has significantly more traffic than the other one.

[lupusreal]

Right before left is how four-way stops work. Putting the signs up doesn't cost much, so why skip them?

[tinodb]

No, that’s not the same. On a 4-way stop you have to completely stop. Also how I remember my year in the US (I’m from NL) is that the first to reach the stop has right of way, not the “left” one. But I might be wrong on that last one? Didn’t have a drivers license at the time (but was surprised - and turned off from - 4-way stops).

[btbuildem]

90% of stop signs in the US/Canada should actually be yield signs. Stop signs are reserved for "dangerous" intersections, ie spots where a driver can't safely see or make a decision without first stopping.

Throwing a red octagon at every single intersection of two roads is lazy and absurd. It encourages people to break the rules (just run the stop sign) and cause accidents (zone out, stop and go without actually looking).

[vhodges]

There's a T intersection in Mission BC that has a stop sign that (for people turning right) should be a yield (at most) because to the left is a one-way after the intersection eg no one should be coming from there :) but the problem is it's single lane and people making a left there should stop.

When turning right, I and a lot of people barely bother slowing down. It's always a bit frustrating when someone does what the sign (and the law of course) says when the don't need too from a pragmatic point of view :-D.

[artursapek]

Funny, I live in the US and I treat about 90% of stop signs as yield signs. My ex-wife would complain about it to me all the time as if I’m doing something wrong, but I never stopped lol

[onlyrealcuzzo]

I presume you mean a rolling stop and not a yield?

[artursapek]

Yeah, slow down to 3-5 mph and make sure there’s nobody coming, then keep going.

[throwway120385]

I like 4-way stops as a pedestrian because I can actually cross the road there. With roundabouts it's impossible to cross without asking really nicely or risking my life. US drivers do not stop for pedestrians so crossing that kind of infrastructure is often taking your life into your hands.

[orthoxerox]

This can easily be solved with a camera. Not yielding to a pedestrian = instant fine.

[fireflash38]

Roundabouts should have only 1 direction you need to look at to cross. You don't have to watch 3-4 different directions like at a 4way stop.

That said, if there's a huge bias towards cars coming from one direction (or out one direction), that can be very difficult to cross. And it has impacts on the roundabout's throughput too, and means that a roundabout might not be the most ideal. Similarly to how a roundabout that gets backedup into can fail catastrophically (you have to make sure there's negative pressure!)

[Doxin]

> It has impacts on the roundabout's throughput too

For these use cases there's the turbo roundabout[0]. Depending on how you design it you can give certain directions slightly more priority, though they don't solve the pedestrian issue either.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Turbo_roundabouts