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by ImHereToVote 612 days ago
I wonder how far we will move the goalposts once we have a multimodal transformer type model running on neuromorphic hardware.
2 comments

Lots of people involved in explaining away AI are labouring under the axiom that intelligence is mysterious. Therefore, if I can understand how a system works, it logically follows that it can't be intelligent.
I predict that many of those people will continue to believe that up until human cognition is mechanistically understood, at which point there will be some other reason that humans are "real" thinkers and machines are not. The problem is that theoretical opposition to the existence of AIs is incompatible with materialism and thus just doesn't fit with our world, which is very much built using the scientific truths that materialism enables us to discover.
It is insane to me that views of consciousness and cognition other than physicalism still exist in mainstream scientific and philosophical discourse. As far as I can tell, no matter how much discourse you dress it up in, any alternative boils down to "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit".
We… can’t really understand how neural networks work, but we can definitely tell they’re not intelligent beyond making good sounding word soup (as demonstrated in their minimal practical reasoning abilities)

I wouldn’t call pagerank intelligent, even though I can give it a text prompt and get relevant information back.

In my view, the only difference between that and an llm is the natural language interface.

I’m no expert on intelligence, but I’d expect being able to introspect and continually learn to be part of it.

You're engaging in explaining away intelligence.

One way to help you notice this is to try and estimate how many billions of people you've defined out of "being intelligent" with your latest goalpost movement.

Be honest, how many people do you think "introspect and continually learn" on a daily basis?

> Be honest, how many people do you think "introspect and continually learn" on a daily basis?

That's wild if you think that isn't quite literally one of the defining features of human consciousness (and many would say other animals as well).

If you think people thinking differently than you means they don't still indeed...think...then I don't know what tell you.

Unfortunately for the intelligence denial crowd, introspection and learning capability is something we can measure, as opposed to the vibes-based discourse you prefer to engage in. If that's what you've picked for your threshold of "intelligence", you've reduced the majority of the bell curve's left side to soulless automatons. Again, your definition, not mine.
My definition (again, as a layman on the subject of intelligence philosophy), but your incorrect analysis.

I guess I just think more highly of my fellow humans.

It’s crazy to me that people would rather believe that we can create intelligence by feeding the text of the internet into a statistics machine, than believe that the people making that text are intelligent.
It's crazy to me people would rather deny the intelligence of a large segment of the human population than admit to the increasing overlap between it and AI.

That's what you're doing when you keep moving the goalposts of "real intelligence" further and further right on the bell curve. You're denying the intelligence and consciousness of billions of people (and counting) just so you don't have to admit there's nothing magical about intelligence.

Sometime in the next 10 years, you'll have to start thinking of yourself as a soulless automaton to keep up the delusion. Good luck with that.

> how many people do you think "introspect and continually learn" on a daily basis?

At the very least, every single person who plays sports, video games, tries finding a way around traffic, a faster route home, a way to do less work, take a longer break, or a way to save some extra money getting food.

Literally any optimization task at all requires an observation, analysis (read: introspection,) and adjustment. That’s why we model training loops as optimization problems.

We spoof that with REACT prompts in LLMs, but it becomes clear after a few iterations that there’s no real optimization going on, just guessing at tokens (a gross oversimplification, as this guessing has real uses). It’s doing what it was trained to do, completes text. Not to mention that those steps all disappear when the prompt is changed.

> One way to help you notice this is to try and estimate how many billions of people you've defined out of "being intelligent" with your latest goalpost movement.

love this, I will use this in future rants.

That argument only works if your audience already thinks of humans as mostly automotons…
It's an operational definition: if you claim AI is not intelligent because it cannot do X, then you necessarily exclude a whole lot of humans who also can't do X.

There used to be a strident faction that would say "but AI can't produce original art/a symphony/novel/etc". My answer was usually (correctly), "neither can you."

I think there is a difference from people upset around over hyped LLMs and arguing about intelligence in "A.I.". Most of the "intelligence" arguments I've seen are fighting against putting too much stock in chatgpt and Sam's fever dreams.
the goalposts for what?
Literal goalpost in a game of football of course. Or soccer if you are an American.
thanks. you seem to think that a spiking multimodal variant of transformers on neuromorphic hardware would demarcate a goal of some sort, which one?

for as far as i can see, the achievement would just be a spiking multimodel variant of transformers on neuromorphic hardware.

I bet you are great at playing blackjack, but suck at Texas hold 'em.