[baxtr]

I wonder if this is an elitist argument.

AI empowers normal people to start building stuff. Of course it won’t be as elegant and it will be bad for learning. However these people would have never learned anything about coding in the first place.

Are we senior dev people a bit like carriage riders that complain about anyone being allowed to drive a car?

[UncleMeat]

My spouse is a university professor. A lot of her students cheat using AI. I am sure that they could be using AI as a learning mechanism, but they observably aren't. Now, the motivations for using AI to pass a class are different but I think that it is important to recognize that there is using AI to build something and learn and there is using AI to build something.

Engineering is also the process of development and maintenance over time. While an AI tool might help you build something that functions, that's just the first step.

I am sure that there are people who leverage AI in such a way that the build a thing and also ask it a lot of questions about why it is built in a certain way and seek to internalize that. I'd wager that this is a small minority.

[KoolKat23]

Back in school on occasion it was considered cheating to use a calculator, the purpose to encourage learning. It would be absurd in the work environment to ban the use of calculators, it's your responsibility as an employee to use it correctly. As you say the first step.

[UncleMeat]

I'm sure at some point that universities will figure out how to integrate AI into pedagogy in a way that works other than a blanket ban. It also doesn't surprise me that until people figure out effective strategies that they say "no chatgpt on your homework."

[lovethevoid]

I'm a huge fan of drivers with no experience or knowledge of a car getting on the highway. After all, look at how empowered they are!

[lawn]

Maybe the senior developers are just jaded having to maintain code that nobody, not even their authors, know how it's supposed to work?

[jcgrillo]

I've gotten a lot of mileage in my career by following this procedure:

1. Talk to people, read docs, skim the code. The first objective is to find out what we want the system to do.

2. Once we've reverse-engineered a sufficiently detailed specification, deeply analyze the code and find out how well (or more often poorly) it actually meets our goals.

3. Do whatever it takes to make the code line up with the specification. As simply as possibly, but no simpler.

This recipe gets you to a place where the codebase is clean, there are fewer lines of code (and therefore fewer bugs, better development velocity, often better runtime performance). It's hard work but there is a ton of value to be gained from understanding the problem from first principles.

EDIT: You may think the engineering culture of your organization doesn't support this kind of work. That may be true, in which case it's incumbent upon you to change the culture. You can attempt this by using the above procedure to find a really nasty bug and kill it loudly and publicly. If this results in a bunch of pushback then your org is beyond repair and you should go work somewhere else.

[faizshah]

It has nothing to do with your level of knowledge or experience as a programmer. It has to do with how you learn: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674729018

To learn effectively you need to challenge your knowledge regularly, elaborate on that knowledge and regularly practice retrieval.

Building things solely relying on AI is not effective for learning (if that is your goal) because you aren’t challenging your own knowledge/mental model, retrieving prior knowledge or elaborating on your existing knowledge.

[senko]

The problem with using the current crop of LLMs for coding, if you're not a developer, is that they're leaky abstractions. If something goes wrong (as it usually will in software developent), you'll need to understand the underlying tech.

In contrast, if you're a frontend developer, you don't need to know C++ even though browsers are implemented in it. If you're a C++ developer, you don't need to know assembly (unless you're working on JIT).

I am convinced AI tools for software development will improve to the point that non-devs will be able to build many apps now requiring professional developers[0]. It's just not there yet.

[0] We already had that. I've seen a lot of in-house apps for small businesses built using VBA/Excel/Access in Windows (and HyperCard etc on Mac). They've lost that power with the web, but it's clearly possible.