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by stonethrowaway 628 days ago
If engineers are still taught engineering as a discipline then it doesn’t matter what tools they use to achieve their goals.

If we are calling software developers who don’t understand how things work, and who can get away with not knowing how things work, engineers, then that’s a separate discussion of profession and professionalism we should be having.

As it stands there’s nothing fundamentally rooted in software developers having to understand why or how things work, which is why people can and do use the tools to get whatever output they’re after.

I don’t see anything wrong with this. If anyone does, then feel free to change the curriculum so students are graded and tested on knowing how and why things work the way they do.

The pearl clutching is boring and tiresome. Where required we have people who have to be licensed to perform certain work. And if they fail to perform it at that level their license is taken away. And if anyone wants to do unlicensed work then they are held accountable and will not receive any insurance coverage due to a lack of license. Meaning, they can be criminally held liable. This is why some countries go to the extent of requiring a license to call yourself an engineer at all.

So where engineering, actual engineering, is required, we already have protocols in place that ensure things aren’t done on a “trust me bro” level.

But for everyone else, they’re not held accountable whatsoever, and there’s nothing wrong with using whatever tools you need or want to use, right or wrong. If I want to butt splice a connector, I’m probably fine. But if I want to wire in a 3 phase breaker on a commercial property, I’m either looking at getting it done by someone licensed, or I’m looking at jail time if things go south. And engineering or no different.

2 comments

In many parts of the world, it is illegal to call yourself an "engineer" without both appropriate certification/training and legal accountability for the work one signs off upon, as with lawyers, medical doctors, and so on. It's frankly ridiculous that software "engineers" are permitted the title without the responsibility in the US.
>as with lawyers, medical doctors, and so on. It's frankly ridiculous that software "engineers" are permitted the title without the responsibility in the US.

It's because 1) most of us don't work on things that can get people jailed or killed and 2) the US leans towards not regulating language so much.

But if it makes you more comfortable, just think of the term "software engineer" as tongue-in-cheek, like some people call janitors "sanitation engineers"

Why do you want to police language? Is any employer mislead by the responsibilities software engineers actually have because of the title?
Indeed. We don't have a fit about deception when somebody who unclogs drains calls themselves Drain Doctor.
Yet my comment keeps getting upvoted and downvoted. I guess I’m either saying something controversial, which I don’t think I am since I am stating the obvious, or potentially the anti-AI crowd doesn’t like my tone. I’m not pro or against AI (I don’t have a dog in this race). Everything at your disposal is potentially a tool to use how you see fit, whether it be AI or a screwdriver.
If your goal is just to get something working then go right ahead. But if your goal is to be learning and improving your process and not introducing any new issues and not introducing a new threat etc. then you’re better off not just stopping at “it works” but also figuring out why it works and if this is the right way to make it work.

The idea that wanting to become better at using something is pearl clutching is frankly why everything has become so mediocre.

We are saying the same thing I think.