[JumpCrisscross]

> number one waste of space in the US is people’s excessively large footprint

Massively needing a source.

> it would inherently not be punitive to the vast majority of Americans who don’t live on outsize plots of land

DOA. Partly due to the electoral college. Partly due to American optimism and aspiration. Perfect is the enemy of the good.

[lotsofpulp]

> Massively needing a source.

Physics.

Energy = acceleration * mass * distance.

The more stuff you move further distances, the more energy you need.

Obviously, more people living in a square mile will use less energy per person than fewer people living in a square mile.

Think about all the energy needed to move water/sewer/trash/gas/police/ambulances/etc in and around a neighborhood where 100 people live in a Barcelona style communal living versus 100 detached homes on 0.1 acres each.

The huge knock on effects of the latter is that it then necessitates personal vehicle transport, which then compounds into more space being needed for huge arterial roads and highways, which then makes neighborhoods unwalkable, further necessitating personal vehicle transport, and so on and so forth.

> DOA. Partly due to the electoral college. Partly due to American optimism and aspiration. Perfect is the enemy of the good.

I’m under no illusion, but I also don’t see a need to inconvenience myself with half measures if my countrymen are not willing to do what is necessary.

[whatshisface]

Most of the blue collar workers I know live in single family suburban homes. Factories are rarely located in urban centers, and corporate dormitories are no longer much of a thing in this country.

[lotsofpulp]

I don’t see why what color collar someone is labeled as is relevant. My assertion is simply that occupying surface area consumes an incredible amount of resources that are not proportionately represented in today’s methods of taxation.

[JumpCrisscross]

You've switched from arguing for a land value tax to arguing for densification. LVTs shoulod cause densification ceteris paribus.

Zoning, however, is the mutandis. LVTs absent zoning reform would not be expected to change much in cities. Zoning reform absent LVTs would spark a systemic boom in densification.

Zoning reform and LVTs are thus orthogonal, with the scant interaction being almost entirely defined by the ratio of unbuilt structures due exclusively to zoning or land hoarding. I asserted that ratio is close to one, due to ample evidence for the former. I asked you for evidence of the latter; "physics" is not a response.

> I also don’t see a need to inconvenience myself with half measures if my countrymen are not willing to do what is necessary

This is, by definition, extremism. It's generally seen as a red flag, communicating lack of commitment and/or dogmatic delusions.

[lotsofpulp]

>You've switched from arguing for a land value tax to arguing for densification. LVTs shoulod cause densification ceteris paribus.

Yes, but exempting homes from LVTs would counteract some of the incentive for densification. I would even go so far as to say excessive space for homes (which goes along with infrastructure that prioritizes cars) is causing knock on effects like kids not being able to roam around outside, and hence causing having kids to be a bigger burden, and so on and so forth.

>Zoning reform absent LVTs would spark a systemic boom in densification.

I would challenge this assumption, as many people prefer suburban quality of life that depend on not living in densely populated communities. Could be from simply preferring more space for themselves or their cars to being in school districts with higher proportions of kids from richer parents.

>I asked you for evidence of the latter;

I am not sure what you are referring to by former and latter here, but when I mean "waste of space", I mean front a big picture view in terms of resource/energy consumption on a societal level as well as knock on effects of sedentary lifestyles, less interaction with neighbors, and so on.

Physics is the answer to the resource/energy consumption part of why it is a "waste of space". If the goal was to ever meaningfully reduce emissions or consumption of various resources, then it would have to involve denser communities.

I would say that both zoning reform and LVT is necessary to accomplish broad reform.

>This is, by definition, extremism. It's generally seen as a red flag, communicating lack of commitment and/or dogmatic delusions.

Unfortunately, my conclusion from observing humanity so far is that it is extremely difficult to reach consensus when the decision involves lots of short term individual sacrifice in exchange for long term societal benefit. I would say that my hopes now lie with technological progress, rather than say, paper straws or recycling plastics, as those seem to be distractions meant to placate.