[bradley13]

A manual wheelchair is less complex than a bicycle, and I can get a decent bicycle for a few hundred bucks. The fact that basic wheelchairs are crazy expensive has little to do with the chairs and a lot to do with insane bureaucracy.

[alistairSH]

You probably don’t want to sit on that cheap bicycle for 16 hours a day. Almost guaranteed it won’t fit property and at best will give you saddle, sores and worse cause back knee issues.

[giorgioz]

And also economy of scale, there are 1 billion bikes in the world VS 65 million wheelchairs.

[eru]

Interesting, only 1 billion bicycles? I would have expected more than that. In most of the places I lived (Europe, Asia) there seems to be more than one beater bike per person lying around somewhere (and some nice bikes, too, but much fewer).

[DrammBA]

I'm actually surprised it's 1 billion, when you remove children, elderly, people simply out of shape for a bike, people unable to afford a bike no matter how cheap, people with disabilities incompatible with bikes, that billion is like 75%+ coverage of TAM.

[bityard]

Is that 1 billion adult bikes in particular? Because in the US, anywhere outside of big cities or college towns, children are ALMOST the only people who ride bikes regularly.

[saagarjha]

Lots of people have bikes who don’t use them regularly. It’s the kind of thing you have in your garage and bring out on a nice day sometimes.

[eru]

Or at least you mean to, but perhaps never get around to it.

[bityard]

fair enough!

[eru]

Some good points.

Many (most?) children have bikes, and lots of elderly people have some bikes somewhere in a shed back from when they used to be able to ride.

Almost everyone can afford a beater bike. That's why they are so common in the third world.

I'm not sure how out of shape you need to be not to be able to ride a bike? In any case, I wasn't wondering about how many people actively ride bikes. I was wondering how many bikes there are.

[codfrantic]

Don't forget Dutch people. I own and use four bicycles. My wife owns three.

[tim333]

If you look on ebay there are loads of wheelchairs for sale from about $100-$200 (£80-150 if british). They are mostly made in China and I think work ok - I bought one for £80 to use with my dad and it was fine. But that was for occasional use. I guess if you were to use it all the time you might want something fancier.

[Damogran6]

That raises a whole host of other issues. They're $200, because they don't have to pay their employees or provide a safe environment, the Government is subsidizing the manufacture or other unsavoury reasons. You can make things really cheap if you don't care about your staff.

[extua]

The Chinese government subsidising the manufacture of wheelchairs doesn't sound as nefarious as you're making out. I would be proud if my government did the same thing.

[valval]

Complete speculation, you’ve downed too much propaganda.

Manufacturing is cheaper in cheaper countries because of less taxes, inflation, bureaucracy, and a dozen other factors that aren’t negative socialist bullshit. Their workers get by just fine with the wages they’re paid.

[jajko]

Economies of scale and lack of competition.

When you have all the components for a cheap bike made in 100s of thousands by ie Shimano, the price goes down dramatically. Wheelchairs? Unless there is 1 dominant manufacturer its not going to happen to smaller shops, and monopoly has its own issues.

When you have regulatory tape which require some steep price hikes to cover some specific aspect (which may not be that important), combined with above you get what you get.

I was recently wheelchair-bound for a month due to my recent paragliding accident (crutches now for at least 1 month more, overall an interesting experience of various limits lying everywhere you don't even realize until you are there), and can appreciate even basic wheelchair and its various functionalities. Its simpler than bike for sure, but its also foldable (at least mine) and relatively easy to pack into trunk of any decent car in a minute (not for me of course but accompanying person).

[space_oddity]

Is there any hope for more affordable options becoming available in the future..?

[throwaway346434]

You cannot get a custom designed bicycle for your body for a few hundred bucks, particularly from a US manufacturer

[joelhaasnoot]

How many wheelchairs are actually truely customized? I hear a lot of complaints from wheelchair manufacturers that this isn't really customized

[srockets]

Part of the problem is the cost. Very few daily wheelchair users can afford to pay a 5-digit price for one.

[PeterStuer]

Third party payment markets tend to have prices spin out of control. Usually the end user demand is fairly inelastic, and the third party is not driven by cost efficiencies in the negotiation. Getting into those markets as a new supplier is very hard as typically a select few incumbents have longstanding relations/deals with the third party.

[spaceman_2020]

I don’t think most bicycles are designed for 16 hours of daily use…

[space_oddity]

That being said, the significant price gap still seems disproportionate

[spaceman_2020]

How much does a quality ergonomic chair cost vs a pair of walking shoes?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

In nations where bicycles are the norm, I would not be surprised if many of them get used 12+ per day.

NYC is awash in bicycle couriers, and they probably ride all the time.

[spaceman_2020]

Some of these comments are so bizarre that they could only be made by AI

Do people here really not grasp the difference between a disabled person being forced to use a wheelchair - which they can’t get out of casually and stretch about - vs a fit person willingly using a bicycle?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

What is the malfunction?

> I don’t think most bicycles are designed for 16 hours of daily use…

Was stated. The answer directly to the statement was:

> In nations where bicycles are the norm, I would not be surprised if many of them get used 12+ per day. NYC is awash in bicycle couriers, and they probably ride all the time.

No AI needed.

Looks like it might be necessary for interpretation, though. That's not something I have any control over.

BTW: I am quite familiar with Serving disabled folks. That's pretty much my job, at home.

[valval]

I’ve noticed that the most racist, ableist, you name it, individuals are the people who most claim to defend the group in question.

I guess this might be because strong opinions are best formed from a surface level understanding of a subject, while intricate and complex opinions require deeper understanding.

[johnisgood]

Yeah, but can you climb chairs with a bicycle? There are wheelchairs that can do that.

[paledot]

Presuming that you mean "stairs", these exist and impress Hacker News users who think any problem can be solved with enough overengineering, but nobody really uses them because they're so much worse at everything else. I've used one to board an airplane embarking from the tarmac, that's about all they're good for.

[TaylorAlexander]

Well, bicycles have more demand and volume (presumably), so that would play in to it. But yes, bicycles are a good point of reference.

[spaceman_2020]

Why? The comfort level and ergonomics demands are completely different. Bicycles are for a few hours of weekly use. Wheelchairs are for 16 hours of daily use.

[throwaway346434]

Bicycles built for long duration use - people do ride for 16-24 hours straight more than you'd think do exist.

[zxexz]

How many of them do that every day?

And of those people that do, how much do you think they spend on their bikes?

[roywiggins]

And, when people do use cheap bikes that don't really fit them out of necessity long-term, what's the toll on their body? It's probably not zero!

[spaceman_2020]

The parent comment is so bizarre

No one who uses a wheelchair does it because they like doing it

Everyone who rides a bike for 16 hours a day does it because they like doing it, and/or they’re an athlete

When you’re done riding your bike for 16 hours a day - likely one week in a year - you can go to the gym, stretch out

The wheelchair guy has to drag himself everywhere

[alistairSH]

Sure, but those bicycles don’t cost 100 bucks they probably cost 5000+. The last bicycle I bought was $7000 and that was midmarket (my recreational cyclist standards).

[fvdessen]

I was recently in Rwanda where seemingly half the goods of this very hilly country are transported by bicycle, and those are single speed old english style bikes with steel frame reinforced with rebar. (they carry hundred of kgs on the racks). The bike are run 8 hours a day for years and cost $100.

[bluGill]

The recreational market does spend a lot of money on bikes. Much of it is of questionable gain already, and in the context of Rwanda negative since the recreational bike generally compromises comfort for speed - a fine compromise for recreation but bad one for most Rwanda uses.

However some of what they are spending money on would make those bikes in Rwanda much better. Better/more comfortable seats can greatly ease the toll on your body. Disk brakes would stop the load much better and so make them safer. A couple gears would be nice (assuming it doesn't compromise drive train strength too much). Modern cargo bikes likely have a better cargo position as well.

[fkyoureadthedoc]

This is the definitely the standard we should strive for when considering the needs of our wheelchair bound friend and family. If they want anything more than a 130lb wheelchair made out of old rebar they're just being selfish really.

[geodel]

In India millions of women are walking miles to fetch few gallons of water everyday. I don't get why people in California are screaming water shortage. Should be possible for Americans to live on a gallon of water if hundred of millions live like that in India.

[Mashimo]

I don't think many people do that, and if so, how many of them do it on one that cost "couple of hundreds"?