[SoftTalker]

My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? My guess is yes. At that point, why not just buy the degree and save everyone a lot of time?

Edit: I guess, though, that the point of degrees from schools like these is not the degree, but the connections. But I'd guess those could be purchased as well.

[JumpCrisscross]

> why not just buy the degree and save everyone a lot of time?

If you do business in the Middle East, you begin to notice the kids of the elites all went to weird no-name Western schools. Turns out they want a Western degree, but don’t want to be away from the capital too long. So they find random universities who will give them a degree for, essentially, no-show remote learning classes. Win-win.

[Loughla]

What is the point of that? They already have the connections and power. They're not learning anything. What's the point?

[rapidaneurism]

The son of the high ranking individual is appointed in a high position in some ministry. Anyone who cries nepotism is quickly reminded that he holds a prestigious western degree, and that is the reason for the appointment.

[tsimionescu]

It's the same impulse that led Romania's former dictator's wife to amass fake diplomas as a world-class chemist, from both Romanian and European universities (including being admitted as a fellow in the UK's Royal Institute of Chemistry), despite only having four years' worth of actual education when she was 10, and already being the most powerful woman in the country.

It is a form of pride and pretend superiority, false legitimacy and so on.

[phil21]

Pretend prestige. They have the connections and power but not pedigree.

As someone without a college degree in tech, and who has attempted but failed to get a tradition “corporate” job based on skills and track record I can sort of understand. Not the same thing at all, but you’d be amazed (or not?) at how much importance some folks put on having a piece of paper even in casual social settings in some circles. Actual skills need not apply.

[WalterBright]

It would seem to be hard to convince someone you had skills in a social setting. Hence the use of a proxy.

[lazide]

Sometimes it’s also a flex to have to certificate but clearly not have the actual skills.

[JumpCrisscross]

> What is the point of that? They already have the connections and power

One could say the same of a billionaire buying their idiot kid an Ivy League education. They're clearly not going to benefit from it. But it looks good and might fool a person here and there.

[cvwright]

Many years ago, I was a grad TA at a school that is now top 10 in the US. Based on that experience, I think everyone paying full freight at these schools is buying their grades. It was de facto impossible to fail any student for cheating, or to punish them in any real way.

Too bad too, since the half of undergrads who weren’t cheaters were the nicest, brightest, salt-of-the-earth people.

[gomerspiles]

Grades are almost guaranteed at Harvard Undergrad. A grader who gives out any Bs or less for any properly submitted paper can expect an outraged Professor to make them stop before he has to deal with the backlash which may include a lawyer.

This may vary by department or over time, but I think there's no reason to believe a Harvard Undergrad Alumni you meet ever did any college level work.

[phaerus_iconix]

What year did you graduate that you developed this opinion? I received many Bs across a variety of departments while doing my BA from '96-2000. Getting As was significantly harder than it had been in highschool because of how much smarter and more hard-working the average student was at Harvard than they had been at the elite private school I had previously been on a scholarship to. The one time I contested a B I got rejected by the head of department in a meeting that took less than 30 seconds; he was so brutal about my result compared to those who got an A I never dared to contest another grade again - the curve they graded against was very strong in my time...

[lubujackson]

I was roughly the same timeline and didn't go to Harvard (had friends that did), but the grade inflation was already known. It certainly wasn't as pervasive as it is now, but at my school "crying to the professor" was a classic tactic to get grades bumped up.

But this was just before all the RateAProfessor sites got big and when I was still proud of my cum laude GPA. About 5 years later is when I started hearing everyone was getting As at Harvard, so I think it was a sudden shift right after your time and certainly not just a Harvard thing.

[skhunted]

In the old days Ivy league type schools gave “gentleman C’s”. Harvard rarely fails someone. Grade inflation is highest at Ivy league type schools.

[csa]

> My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades?

This made me laugh out loud.

There are majors at every university that are easy to graduate from. Often these are aimed precisely at academically unambitious athletes and well-connected mediocre students.

Harvard is no exception.

Getting into elite schools is the hard part. Graduating is not.

> But I'd guess those could be purchased as well.

Maybe? Not really? If you’re already part of that social circle and socio-economic status (SES), you don’t have to buy it. If you’re not already in that that SES, then building elite connections requires quite a bit of cultivation that, imho, is not easy for most college-aged kids to pull off, largely due to ignorance of SES/class distinctions in the US.

[Dylan16807]

I would say that certain majors being easy is a much smaller issue than getting the grades you want in any major.

[thaumasiotes]

> My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? My guess is yes.

There's no need to buy grades. All grades are A anyway.