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by gnarea 630 days ago
Hey folks,

I couldn't post a reply to a message from shubhamkrm because someone flagged it. Honestly, I don't see how the comment would've violated the HN guidelines. They disagreed with me, but did so respectfully. I suspect someone may have perceived it as a violation to the following rule:

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.

But I'd argue that deleting their message actually tramples curiosity. It wasn't a political or ideological message. The focus was ethics.

In the hope that this was a mistake, I'll quote most of their message below next to my replies.

---

> A major reason for Internet blackouts here is because in many areas, there’s a deep seated animosity between different communities due to historical and ideological differences. Internet blackouts are done close to any sensitive event, to prevent malicious actors from spreading misinformation/rumours and provoking riots

First of all, I like your summary of the situation in India because I think it's objective and brings its nuance to the front.

> Have you considered the ethical implications of your service in such cases?

I have.

India is the reason why I describe Awala's goal as "providing all human beings with uncensored and timely communication anywhere in the universe – without impairing the fundamental rights of other human beings".[1] That last sentence is mainly because of India.

I agree with the sentiment, or the problem that the government is trying to tackle, but I disagree with their methods. They violate the fundamental human rights of many millions of people -- predominantly in Jammu & Kashmir and Manipur -- whenever they disconnect entire regions, not just from the Internet, but from the outside world. Even the postal service has been suspended.[2]

I don't think it's all India's fault though. At its core, this is a content moderation issue. Those malicious actors that spread misinformation use large WhatsApp groups and the like, and the companies behind those products haven't done enough to address the problem, so local governments in India take the drastic decision to cut off the Internet.

> Are you willing to take the moral responsibility for the damage to life and property that could be caused using your service?

Rather than waiting for something like that to happen, I'm more interested in mitigating it in the first place. That's why:

- Letro[3], the first -- and so far only -- app to be powered by Awala, only supports 1:1 messaging. No groups yet, and when we do, we'll only support a relatively small number of people (TBD; not hundreds or thousands).

- The future functionality to support "broadcasting" information to many users already has built-in mechanisms to handle hate speech and misinformation.[4]

- As I work closely with anyone integrating Awala in their existing services, I intend to ensure that they have adequate plans to address hate speech and misinformation.

---

[1] https://awala.network/about

[2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/9/25/crackdown-on-lawyer...

[3] https://letro.app/en/

[4] https://github.com/AwalaApp/specs/issues/43

2 comments

It's back; I just vouched for it to allow for responses (even though I completely disagree with the premise – but such is life with free speech.)
Thanks. I didn't mean to be provocative, just wanted to show the perspective from the other side.
Thank you so much!
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comment. I didn't mean to be provocative or offensive, just wanted to show the perspective from the other side.

> I agree with the sentiment, or the problem that the government is trying to tackle, but I disagree with their methods. They violate the fundamental human rights of many millions of people -- predominantly in Jammu & Kashmir and Manipur -- whenever they disconnect entire regions, not just from the Internet, but from the outside world. Even the postal service has been suspended.[2]

> I don't think it's all India's fault though. At its core, this is a content moderation issue. Those malicious actors that spread misinformation use large WhatsApp groups and the like, and the companies behind those products haven't done enough to address the problem, so local governments in India take the drastic decision to cut off the Internet.

I appreciate the sentiment. People on HN who live in free Western countries might not appreciate how an under-policed country with deep historical animosities looks like (India had 145 police personnel per 100k population, whereas the US had 428[1]). Unmitigated misinformation can do (and has done) a lot of harm in such societies. I agree with you that at its core, its a moderation issue, and a policing issue. I myself do not agree with the blanket bans, but I do not see any other possible mitigations as long as the communication service providers (such as Meta) do not bring proper moderation and fact-checks.

> Rather than waiting for something like that to happen, I'm more interested in mitigating it in the first place. That's why:

> - Letro[3], the first -- and so far only -- app to be powered by Awala, only supports 1:1 messaging. No groups yet, and when we do, we'll only support a relatively small number of people (TBD; not hundreds or thousands).

> - The future functionality to support "broadcasting" information to many users already has built-in mechanisms to handle hate speech and misinformation.[4]

> - As I work closely with anyone integrating Awala in their existing services, I intend to ensure that they have adequate plans to address hate speech and misinformation.

I do hope the mitigation works, and people are able to communicate with each other without allowing misinformation to spread. I had done some research on opportunistic networks as an undergrad student, with a similar goal of restoring communication in regions without adequate network coverage, so I do understand the need for such services. I wish you all the best, and would be following Awala with interest.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...