Ask HN: How can I escape my 3W country as a freelance dev with passive income?

[Scapeghost]

I was born in a shitty Middle Eastern’ish country and let's just say I’m sick of it. The general toxicity, the internal racism, the unreliability of basic utilities, the misogyny, the risk of mugging and murder…

I tried living in some of the “better” Middle Eastern places like Dubai, Qatar, and frankly, behind the artificial veneer that they spend massive efforts to advertise, they are just as shitty.

I just want to be able to code and create from home in peace, and have a beautiful environment outdoors to safely take a break in. I also want my money to go towards supporting a good country with functional democracy, that offers a path to eventual citizenship.

I’m around 40 and a high-school dropout. I have passive income that hovers around $1000-$2000 every month. If I’m successful with the stuff I’m working on then it will be more. I can dip into savings for larger one-off expenses like initial moving costs or setting up a company, and I can break the piggy bank for around $30K-$35K. I can speak English as good as a native.

What are my options?

[WheelsAtLarge]

You'll need lots of money or a high education to move to one of the European Union countries. Try getting a job that offers a work visa in one of the countries of your choice. But that's temporary by definition.

Another option, move to a country like Mexico that has options. Immigration is not as difficult as it is in the US or Europe and you can make a relatively good living if you have marketable skills. I know of people who have moved to Mexico from the US and they are happy. Make sure that you pick the right area to move to. Living conditions can vary a lot. A big advantage that you will have is your ability to speak English. It's a big plus. You'll need to learn Spanish. Given your assets, you can get a visa to travel to the US and use that to find businesses that you can work for as a freelancer.

I assume that you are female from what you wrote. Misogyny is a problem too but I suspect that it's better than in the Middle East. It's a democracy but it has issues with corruption. I hear that it can be a great place to live once you adapt.

That's one option. Your goal should be to do as much research as you can. You always have the option to visit for a few months and see how things work out before you make a decision.

Canada is another option, but again immigration requirements are hard to meet. Look into it. It's worth trying.

[mindwork]

Canada might not be as good of an option. I've spend a month in Canada in September 2024 and spoke with people from Uber drivers to an immigrants. Everybody keeps mentioning that it's close to impossible to find a job for last couple of years and it is getting really expensive day by day.

[moomoo11]

If he’s able to freelance it might not be a big deal honestly.

Canada is far better than other options and he can immigrate to the best country for tech (USA) later if he wants.

If he wants to get out of the shithole country (I’m also from 3rd world bottom middle class - f that those countries are a lost cause) then Canada is a huge upgrade.

[Scapeghost]

Thank you. Though Mexico has always seemed just as scary and with many of the same problems as the place I want to leave.

I'm more inclined towards East Asia, and read that Thailand may have options for "digital nomads". My passive income alone may be enough to live in relative comfort there.

If I ever go to the western hemisphere I'd rather consider places like Chile, or even visa-free places like Svalbard, Norway as a last resort.. :)

How about just disappearing in a Polynesian island like Samoa, is that a thing? lol

[gregjor]

You don’t need to speak much Thai if you live in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, or the more popular beach resort cities. You can get by with no Thai at all unless you intend to live in rural Thailand.

Thailand does not have a remote worker visa like some European countries do. The requirements for the DTV (erroneously called a digital nomad visa) look hard to satisfy, and then you only get to stay 180 days in a year.

https://siam-legal.com/travel-to-thailand/dtv-visa-thailand-...

Thailand does offer other visas you can research. Digital nomads in Thailand typically come and go on tourist visas. Look into Thailand Privilege (formerly Thailand Elite) for a decent visa you can just pay for.

Honestly without a college degree and a high income you can document, combined with a passport that I guess limits your options, you will have to put significant effort into moving anywhere long-term. Look into Indonesia and Malaysia, both friendly to immigrants and nomads, cheap, safe, if not democratic in the American/western European sense.

[big-green-man]

If you're looking for a beautiful place to go outside, Svalbard is not it lol.

Thailand is awesome, however they're not like many other well developed places where English is important to them. They are proud of their language and you'll need to learn it to get on. It's a shame because you speak English perfectly.

If you want something that your English can be a skill that you can put to use, Europe and the English speaking countries have pretty strict rules (for legal immigrants). You can get work as an English teacher in Korea or Japan since you're so good at it, especially if you learned it as a second language you're more familiar with the formal structure of the language than a native speaker because you had to learn them from scratch. Not quite tech work, but they're reasonably nice places. They're a little racist but they see nothing wrong with it, and their target of dislike is probably not you so you probably won't see much of that. And, their racism isn't usually hateful, they just stereotype and stare and ask inappropriate questions mostly.

Latin America... you'll need to learn Spanish. Most of the place is unbelievably beautiful, but there's some corruption and crime. The Caribbean, it's also beautiful, and many places have English as the primary language, but again, similar problems to Latin America.

The pacific islands are nice, most of them are full of English speakers, but many of the islands are UK or US territories and you'll have a hard time going for the same reason you'd have a hard time going to the US or UK. Also, some places like american Samoa, they have weird laws about land ownership, and interestingly those from there have US passports but are not US citizens. There are many that aren't US territories but that are guaranteed military protection and use the US dollar. Tons of great places there if you do your research.

As far as Mexico, many places on the Baja peninsula are relatively crime free, as developed as any US town, many people speak English there because of a history of tourism from the US state of California. Maybe worth checking out. Mexican passport holders can travel to more countries visa free than any other country's passport, and in many other places, get a visa relatively easily, so it might be a great idea to get one if you want access to much of the world.

[Scapeghost]

> If you're looking for a beautiful place to go outside, Svalbard is not it lol.

It'd be a nice change from the desert climates I've been stuck in all my life though haha

> You can get work as an English teacher in Korea or Japan since you're so good at it

Let's be real here, they won't feel much confidence in learning English from a brown person :') I grew up on English media and then raised on the internet so my accent actually used to be good, but living in places like Dubai has actually messed up my English a bit because of the creole/pidgin they use there.

As for racism, I've been to East/SE Asian countries and frankly the racism that white/Western people tend to perceive is often pretty harmless and benign. Just cultural differences in "appropriateness". I've certainly seen worse in my own country. The worst I've personally experienced was in Dubai from Arabs/Emiratis against the many "brown" expats who live and work there, even those following the same religion. (P.S. I'm not religious at all)

I don't really need a job per se to support myself. I just want a way to 1: Be able to stay in a country long-term (longer than the usual tourist visas) while working from home, and 2: Eventually own property there and become a permanent resident if not a naturalized citizen.

There are some "gray" options like paying someone to "hire" you as their employee, basically getting an employment visa but doing your own thing. Or paying someone to marry you :') Both options are legal but rely on trust and make you dependent on a person you don't know: They can take your money then give you the boot any time if they want.

I learned of New Caledonia a while ago (France) and man, that place looks like paradise. Would be so perfect if I could settle there!

[galfarragem]

> There are some "gray" options like paying someone to "hire" you as their employee, basically getting an employment visa but doing your own thing. Or paying someone to marry you :') Both options are legal but rely on trust and make you dependent on a person you don't know: They can take your money then give you the boot any time if they want.

That's exactly the problem with even the most "benign" expats (I was an expat myself). They bring with them the same practices and prejudices from which they are trying to escape.

[7222aafdcf68cfe]

If you are looking for employment, apply for jobs with large companies that are able/willing to sponsor a visa.

For Europe, look into the Blue Card https://immigration-portal.ec.europa.eu/eu-blue-card/essenti... Several countries count professional experience towards qualifications.

Don't try to get everything at once. Moving to another country AND Getting a Visa AND Getting a work permit AND Working from home all at once might be a stretch.

If you are looking to live off your passive income, if it is a business income, it might be possible to get an entrepreneur visa in several places if you start a company there.

[carlosjobim]

Lie as much as you can and make yourself a victim and you will get asylum anywhere in the first world, as well as all your living expenses paid for for the rest of your life by the tax payers.

Be honest and try to be productive and it will be almost impossible for you to emigrate. That's not the kind of people that are welcome or wanted in the first world - neither immigrants nor people born there.

If $1000-$2000 in income was all that it took to get a Visa, then millions of Europeans would move to the USA and vice versa, so it won't be easier for you if you try the angle of providing for yourself and being productive.

If you're fine with being an illegal alien, you can go almost anywhere and live a good life with that kind of income. You can usually set up a business if you want as well.

[admissionsguy]

You could come to Sweden on a student visa. Plenty of universities (e.g. Växjö) cater to people who are more into coming to Sweden than into studying. The requirements are low, age doesn't matter. You would need some sort of high school qualification, but these are quite doable in multiple ways. You can work without limits on a student visa.

And if you are into beautiful outdoor environments, where I live in the north, $30k buys a very nice house.

[fmw]

The Netherlands has the Highly Skilled Migrant (HSM) visum:

https://ind.nl/en/residence-permits/work/highly-skilled-migr...

In summary, it requires:

- a company willing to apply for the visum for you, and,

- a minimum salary that varies on age and education level (this is how we measure how sought after your skillset is in our market).

In your case the salary requirement would be 5331 euros/month because you are over 30 and don't have a recognized master's degree.

If you have the Turkish nationality there are some more relaxed requirements (e.g. you can apply for the visum yourself, you don't need to company to do the paperwork, although in practice it will be faster and easier if the company is an official HSM sponsor).

Apart from the HSM visum you can also pursue a Startup Visum or a Self-employed visum, see https://www.netherlandspointofentry.nl/start-a-business/ for more information. If you don't want to work for someone else I suppose you can also set up a Dutch company and hire yourself as a HSM, but I don't have direct experience or knowledge about that.

If you can get a job that meets the salary requirements the highly-skilled migrant visum is very straightforward. The Netherlands is a good place to live and we also offer tax facilities to highly skilled migrants (https://business.gov.nl/running-your-business/staff/terms-of...).

There is a path to citizenship. If you qualify for the HSM visum that means you'll be getting a salary that will allow you to build a good life here, including getting a mortgage and buying a house, for example.

The difficulty of finding a job like that and an employer willing to sponsor you depends on your skillset. Once you get here, it can also be difficult to find a place to live, especially if you insist on living in crowded places like Amsterdam.

I would recommend doing your own research or getting advice from people qualified to talk about immigration law, which I am not. If you have questions that I can answer from the perspective of an employer that sponsors these visa and helps colleagues move here my email is in my profile.

[aupra]

Sorry, I don't have any advice. But earning $1K-2K as a passive income is huge! Atleast as a fellow 3W resident. Do you mind sharing what you do?

Anyway, wishing you good luck!

[Scapeghost]

Without giving away too much PII, some of it is interest from various savings accounts and subscriptions/donations from Patreon etc. and some from sporadic sales.

[mcmicah]

Take a look at Taiwan's Gold Card program. They are pretty eager to issue them in technology and the country is a joy. You can get by only knowing English, but you can of course get much more of your time if you're willing to pick up Chinese.

[Scapeghost]

P.S. Since I mentioned being from the Middle East I think I should add that I'm not religious at all lol

But I can't get it removed from my passport as there are laws against apostasy and "blasphemy" here :(

[hollownobody]

An European country perhaps? If you get a visa for q few years in Germany, for example, then you can apply for permanent residence. There are freelance visas.

[znt]

I can't believe I'm typing this but actually trying to sneak into US via southern border looks quite promising at the moment.

It should cost you around $20K - $25K, paying for the smugglers and such.

Lots of white collar people from my middle-eastern country has chosen this route for the last 2 years, instead of waiting for the official visa channels.

[Lionga]

And then he is back in a country with general toxicity, the internal racism, the risk of mugging and murder plus corruption and being the illegally there. What would be won?

[486sx33]

Really? The top comment on HN is to illegally come to the US?

[more_corn]

I’d move to Costa Rica. They have a vibrant tech scene. Beautiful country. Good weather. Low cost. Safe.

Portugal has a digital nomad program.

New Zealand is looking to import tech talent. They had a program called look see Wellington where they’d sponsor tech people to simply show up and check it out. If you spent a week there I bet you could get an offer and with an offer you can get a visa basically anywhere.

[pestatije]

marrying a foreigner is a thing...there are agencies that organise it all for you, for a fee obviously

[admissionsguy]

Bald, middle-aged Swedes in my area are looking to meet you!

[getwiththeprog]

That should be "as well as a native", but seriously, you write incredibly well.

I would suggest travelling and building connections with people in places you would like to be. You will probably have to work to get your required visas, and meeting people is the best way to get work.

[Scapeghost]

"as well as a native" sounds ambiguous in my head, like implying "and I am a native" so I went with the counterpart to "as good as new"

[toast0]

I mean, "as well as a native" is more proper, but a native might not say it either. A little on the UK/US divide imho.

You might look at what it takes to get into AU/NZ? I think NZ may be hard, but AU might not be --- I heard you don't even need to be a criminal anymore ;)