[AnonCoward42]

> What russia calls a "provocation" is no excuse for russia's invasion and subsequent 3rd genocide of Ukrainians (the 1st being the russian-perpetrated Holodomor starting in 1932, the 2nd being the russian deportation of Crimean Tatars starting in 1944).

Yeah the liberal use of genocide isn't going to help. Killing thousand civilians per day in east Ukraine by their own people is closer to that. And killing thousands of civilians was also a reason for the NATO to intervene in Serbia.

> Had russia stayed within their borders and minded their own business, the current russian war of genocide against Ukraine would not exist.

The same could be said about the US in Ukraine, but also Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq - just in the recent time, otherwise I have to list most of the world. The difference with this and Russia is, that there was never a threat for the US, but it is an open threat to Russia if Ukraine is part of NATO.

> Had russia historically not been evil to its neighbors (example: the Katyn Massacre in 1940), its neighbors wouldn't seek protection from russia.

1940? What time is it?

[aguaviva]

Killing thousand civilians per day in east Ukraine by their own people is closer to that.

You're hallucinating. Total deaths an all sides (civilian and military) are far below 1000, and certainly not ">=2000" as you are explicitly stating.

One could delve further into civilian vs. military distinction and which side is responsible for the bulk of these -- but if you're going to insist on pulling numbers out of the air without making any effort to check them, there's no point in doing so.

[ImPostingOnHN]

> Yeah the liberal use of genocide isn't going to help

Agreed: russia's liberal use of genocide in Ukraine isn't going to help resolve the conflict. Beyond that, denying russia's 3rd genocide of Ukrainians isn't going to help. Especially since nearly every country in the world has rejected the excuses you speak, and condemned russia's actions in the UN. If russia cared about civilian killing, russia would not have killed so many civilians in their war on Chechnya and their other conquered lands, and russia would stop killing so many civilians in Ukraine, including in Eastern Ukraine.

>> Had russia stayed within their borders and minded their own business, the current russian war of genocide against Ukraine would not exist.

> The same could be said about the US

The same could be said about russia. "Someone else did it" isn't a sufficient excuse, which is why nearly every country in the world has rejected the excuses you speak, and condemned russia's actions in the UN. If you think other countries' actions are equivalent, you may make your case to the UN, who can decide if they are. If you think other countries did wrong, you may make your case to the ICJ or ICC, who can decide if they did. Note that "invade and genocide" is not an acceptable response.

> 1940? What time is it?

Has russia ever acknowledged that the actions I cite were wrong, apologized, and made reparations? No? They're just doing the same thing again? And russia is surprised the world is reacting to russian actions in the way they are? Such surprise is performative. It is best if russia accepts sooner, rather than later, that if they wish to change the world's reasonable reactions to unreasonable russian behavior, they must first change the unreasonable behavior. This starts with accepting to settle their complaints via multilateral diplomacy, not invasion and genocide. It also means accepting russia doesn't get everything russia wants.

> The difference with this and Russia is, that there was never a threat

Oh, russia has never attacked any countries? They present no threat? If this was true, countries would not seek to join NATO to protect themselves from russian threat. Ukraine sought protection because they felt threatened by russia. They were right: russia attacked them for no good reason.

> it is an open threat to Russia if Ukraine is part of NATO.

This is an empty, world-rejected talking point. Every country has the right to join NATO if they wish. It only threatens russia's ability to conquer and genocide other countries, which they have no right to do in the first place. As long as russia doesn't attack other countries, there is no problem. A better representation is that russia is an open threat to Ukraine and eastern Europe if the latter are not in NATO. russia proved this to be true with their nazi-like wars of territorial conquest.