[simonh]

I was thinking "Do people really attack you for being religious in that way? Surely not." And yet here we have someone doing just that. How sad.

Human beings believe things without a shred of credible evidence all the time. In fact, taking things on faith is a valuable, even vital intellectual short-cut that allows us to get on with doing stuff without having to work out every detail of our lives from first principles all the time.

I happen to believe that this explains belief in god, i.e. that it's an intellectual short-cut that allows societies to construct functional moral and social frameworks that historically have served a valuable purpose. Frameworks that nowadays are not so valuable because we now have well worked out philosophies of life and morality that render divine fiat unnecessary to leading a healthy, productive and satisfying life. I see religious as being a vestigial social construct that is withering away as it's nolonger required.

However I am also very much aware that I still use all sorts of intellectual short-cuts and assumptions every day. Anyone who thinks human beings are inherently rational logical beings is IMHO delusional. We are primarily emotional, instinctual beings overlayed with thin layer of self awareness and congnition.

Therefore I think there's plenty of scope for sensible people to adhere to religious belief systems if they so choose, as long as they don't expect special rights and privileges for doing so. But can we all agree to at least be civil about it?

[kmm]

He wasn't attacking him. What's sad is that you need to feel persecuted.

The point is exactly as you say, just because you have faith you don't get any privileges. I and many others cannot understand how one can bring the empiricism inherent to science in accordance with the irrationality of faith. (And I don't use irrational as an insult here, I just mean that faith isn't based on a rational basis). It's not attacking for finding that incredulous.

I think of myself as a scientist and a rational person, yet I believe in some form of an immortal soul, or at least that the mind is not physical. I absolutely don't feel like I should be free from scepticism and even if I did I wouldn't feel attacked if someone questioned my "faith".

EDIT: A single downvote and no reply. That means I'm right, right?

[Smudge]

Being civil about these issues is important. (dhechols could have been more civil.) But one of the problems with belief systems is that people often do "expect special rights and privileges."

In my opinion, one of those widely regarded "special rights" is the right to make unfalsifiable claims without being challenged. Scepticism is widely viewed as an "attack" on the safety-zone we call "faith," when in reality it is simply what it is: someone pointing out logical flaws. It's not their fault if we take it personally because we believe our beliefs should be free from sceptics.

But, of course, it helps to not be an ass about it too.