[safety1st]

Not saying this is who you are, but this is the argument I hear from Americans who have a vested interest in defending the illegal business practices of its cartels and monopolies. "This country is so big, that innovation is hard and will be slower."

I don't believe them. I think innovation is stymied either by monopoly, regulation or both. I think specifically we allowed monopoly to encroach in an unprecedented way since the Reagan era. I think there are a lot of rich guys breaking the law, the Sherman Act and its kin are real, the DOJ and the FTC have teeth again, America can be innovative in every field and it's time for action.

Enforcing antitrust law is the path to better products and services and maybe even a restoration of wealth equality to some degree, because historically starting businesses was what kept the fruits of the American economic pie more distributed than they are today.

[oooyay]

A startup that I worked at that worked on municipal water infrastructure often had to sell to rural areas first because they didn't have a rollout of complex existing systems to decouple and migrate. I suspect that's analogous to what OP is describing; a situation where the entrenched system is difficult to replace because the operations of it are now engrained and well-understood.

For what it's worth, I think you're both right to some degree.

[nolok]

To agree with your point; if the entire EU, with country having completely different level of developpement and banking infrastructure and currency and language, managed to standardize and deploy unified SEPA wires including instant wires, then that argument cannot be accepted for the US.

It's easier and faster (and probably cheaper) for me to instant wire money from one euro to several thousand to any random Bulgarian person or business in their own currency, or for said business to take money from my account, while retaining all banking protection, than it is for two silicon valley Californian to do it short of using a private business solution.

Overall the state of the banking and payment infrastructure in the US compared to their advancement level always weirds members out. Well, not infrastructure not the right word, I'm sure the backend is great but what is exposed to people seem to suck.

It's your money you should be feeling in charge not finding solution to be able to use it.

[redserk]

Someone who defends the insanely slow speed of US innovation with consumer finance has not spent any amount of time talking to folks outside of the US.

There is this wild myth that the US is the only true developed economy.

The US is incredibly insular with how it approaches financial innovation.

As many of us deal with software, it’s the equivalent of “N-I-H Syndrome”.

We’re only just now starting to get Fedwire after India, Australia, the Eurozone, and countless other countries have had instant payments for a while.

[oceanplexian]

> The US is incredibly insular with how it approaches financial innovation.

Financial innovation is more than debit transactions.

The US has thousands of financial products that don’t exist in Europe, far more widespread access to credit and a better credit scoring system, better fintech (For example it’s pretty trivial to get a competitively priced loan instantly approved online in a matter of minutes). Plus Europeans have absolutely garbage real estate products, most people are holding short term variable rate mortgages. I’m sorry but Id take the US system over that any day.

[badestrand]

> unified SEPA wires including instant wires

Just to clarify a detail, SEPA bank transfers are not instant yet and until very recently could take 6 days, even between banks in the same country and small amounts.

[sofixa]

SEPA Instant has existed since 2017, and in 2025 it will become mandatory for all banks to support for free.

[Sharparam]

Despite it existing for a long time, support for it is far from universal still.

In Sweden there is only a single bank in the entire country that has proper SEPA instant support. Some banks still charge extra for it as well.

My own bank required some coercion before they would let me send money to my European friends (to pay for shared travel expenses).

[sofixa]

> In Sweden there is only a single bank in the entire country that has proper SEPA instant support. Some banks still charge extra for it as well.

> My own bank required some coercion before they would let me send money to my European friends (to pay for shared travel expenses).

Hence the new legislation to make it mandatory next year.

[SlightlyLeftPad]

Coincidentally, this point came up in another HN thread about California enacting a rule that forces companies to make subscriptions cancelable with one-click.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41644315

[paradox242]

I suspect you both actually agree. What they are highlighting is that the incumbents are actually slower to update or adopt newer technologies, often because they enjoy a position as you described where they don't feel normal market pressures due to a position as a monopoly or as a member of a cartel.

[Izkata]

The problem isn't innovation, it's adoption. A general "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

[sofixa]

> A general "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

It's much more "will this cost us even a tiny bit more to implement compared to the status quo? Then no". US companies don't hesitate to innovate if it will save them money, especially in the short term (line must go up).