[Sysreq2]

I don’t think the modern Democratic Party the same pro-worker, anti-corporate greed version a lot of us grew up with. Don’t take this as an endorsement for Trump mind you. Hardly. Democrats still have basic human rights on their side.

Corporate greed and military spending aren’t up for debate though. We can bicker about guns and immigration policy all we want but some topics aren’t even on the table for discussion.

[BadHumans]

To a degree you are right, but fully agreeing with this is ignoring reality given the thread we are commenting in. There has been more antitrust legislation under the current administration than there has been in a decade so while they aren't the Dems of old, I feel we are heading in a good direction.

[throwway120385]

There are several different caucuses within the Democratic Party. Some of them are the pro-corporate types you're referring to. But there is also a Progressive caucus that is pretty pro-worker pro-tax that I think you're missing out on.

[Sysreq2]

So it’s funny you mention that. I actually think Marx made a fantastic critique of capitalism. He kind of nailed the inherent flaws within the system. I compare his solutions to someone predicting that every desk would eventually have a telegraph through. Identifying a problem doesn’t therefor imply a solution.

Regarding the modern Progressive movement though, I find them a bit too authoritarian for my tastes. There are countless examples but classic Western liberalism is at odds with their ideology. They’ve fallen into the classic revolutionary entrapment of their own power being tied with continued upheaval. If you are not with them completely then you are the enemy. From the Google Manifesto to JK Rowling’s cancelling, they remind me of the mob during the French Revolution. They just eat their own and refuse to accept any kind of meaningful critique.

Liberalism requires debate, disagreement and questioning the status quo. I don’t see that amongst the modern Progressives. They would rather burn it down than build something better.

Ironically, I fear them gaining power as much as I do the religious right. Neither contains the capacity for building the coalitions needed for stable governance. I like moderates. Stability. Peace. Compromise. Mutual Respect. Empathy. I just don’t see those values in those circles.

Now that I’ve politely disagreed, I suppose it’s just a matter of time before someone comes along to insult me and prove my point.

[dwoldrich]

I disagree with you on the human rights thing, that is definitely on the table for discussion.

I connect the erosion of bodily autonomy in America to the Democratic mandates for health insurance purchase with Obamacare and then certainly the federal mandate for employees of large corporations to receive the experimental EUA Covid vaccine.

In the arena of basic human rights, any political party that demands I show my private medical information as proof of vaccination in order that I may continue to work in a 100% remote job has lost the thread and there's no way back to good graces.

The "my body my choice" and workers rights Democratic party locked me down on home detention as a non-essential worker for over a year and finally got me RIF'd from my fancy job because I refused to show my papers well after the crisis had ended. Would you call that fascism or authoritarianism?

And that erosion of bodily autonomy at the federal level led to the _easy_ overturning of Roe v Wade! At the time the federal vaccine mandates were announced, I called it that they were weakening Roe. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The Democratic party needs to end and something new needs to grow to replace all the corruption. There's not one good policy for humanity coming from them and certainly far too much optional war and needless killing.

[BadHumans]

> In the arena of basic human rights, any political party that demands I show my private medical information as proof of vaccination in order that I may continue to work in a 100% remote job has lost the thread and there's no way back to good graces.

There is no political party that demands this. I've worked 100% since the start of the pandemic and have only been asked for proof of vaccination for a company onsite. Never once been at threat of losing my remote job because of vaccination status. Sounds like your company was just looking for an excuse to lay people off.

> And that erosion of bodily autonomy at the federal level led to the _easy_ overturning of Roe v Wade! At the time the federal vaccine mandates were announced, I called it that they were weakening Roe. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Really? You should've told the Supreme Court because they didn't mention vaccines at all in their decisions to overturn Roe v Wade.

> There's not one good policy for humanity coming from them and certainly far too much optional war and needless killing.

This is not even remotely true and is so emotionally charged that it is impossible to actually have a discussion. I much prefer their policies on public infrastructure, environment, and climate just to name a few.

[dwoldrich]

> Sounds like your company was just looking for an excuse to lay people off.

Of course. I called it a RIF for a reason. At the time, I was caught unawares and was very hurt by what I saw as a betrayal. It was my sense that the RIF was a politically-driven move and it was a compliance test that I had failed. It sounds like you were fortunate to have not been so caught up in it.

In my depths-of-despair blue state, the lockdowns were brutal and the outcomes on kids here have been tragic. Adults I know are just now processing the pain, many marriages wrecked. I lay those terrible Covid politics and ruination at the Democrats' feet.

> Really? You should've told the Supreme Court because they didn't mention vaccines at all in their decisions to overturn Roe v Wade.

Yes, really, it wasn't a sacred cow. The zeitgeist was: my body, my choice, but only when the mob allows it, all courtesy of Covid. RvW is just one more easy come, easy go judicial decision.

Health science will continue to advance and the abortion racket will eventually end.

> is so emotionally charged that it is impossible to actually have a discussion.

Yeah, you're right. I was coming on too strong there. :/

> public infrastructure

Infrastructure is not a Democratic issue, but the corruption is worse under the D's. Rural broadband is the latest government spending fiasco.

> environment and climate

Democratic climate politics is a racket. It's bumpersticker politics, and junk science. What climate model ever survives, where is the science in meta-analyses? Regulations around pollution is something everyone can get behind. I remember smog in Los Angeles in the 70's and it is so much better now. But pollution isn't fear porn that brings in the big bucks, boiling seas are. The catastrophism is OLD and TIRED, and none of the fear porn hath come to pass. It's such a racket.

Name some more favored policies! In the seventies we had the misery index under Carter. Under Biden, we got the huge spike in deaths of despair. Democratic public health policies are schizophrenic. What a huge mess, I can't understand Democratic voters!

[BadHumans]

> In my depths-of-despair blue state, the lockdowns were brutal and the outcomes on kids here have been tragic. Adults I know are just now processing the pain, many marriages wrecked. I lay those terrible Covid politics and ruination at the Democrats' feet.

This sounds hard and I'm sorry to hear you were going through that. I don't think it is a fair assessment of the situation. The lockdowns and quarantine started under Trump for instance. To spare his side of any blame and lay everything at the feet of the Dems is having a selective memory.

> Health science will continue to advance and the abortion racket will eventually end.

You are going to have to explain this statement because I don't see how abortion is a racket. Unless you mean saber rattling over abortion.

> Regulations around pollution is something everyone can get behind. I remember smog in Los Angeles in the 70's and it is so much better now.

Smog in better now because of the EPA and restrictions around fossil fuels. The GOP explicitly states in their platform that they want more fossil fuels and to gut the EPA. As far as your comment on corruption, this is not a "Dem" issue, politics at the local level is incredibly corrupt. I live in a red state and the same thing happens here. Tons of grant money disappearing into pockets of contractors that are friends of the local republicans. There needs to be more oversight at the local level.

> none of the fear porn hath come to pass.

For you it hasn't. Parts of the country reaching wet bulb temperatures and other countries seeing record high temperatures every year. More fires in the western US that burn longer and cause more damage.

> Under Biden, we got the huge spike in deaths of despair. And Deaths of despair have been rising since the 90s and took a sharp rise in the mid 2010s. https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2019...

> I can't understand Democratic voters!

Don't take this the wrong way but you just lack empathy. A lot of what you are saying is that "Dems say it will get bad and it hasn't gotten bad FOR ME" and this isn't 100% your fault. Media works hard to "other" people so you won't feel empathic. I think Trump is a moron but I understand why people feel angry and fall for the rhetoric he pushes. However, I've read all of Agenda 47 and the GOP 2024 platform and I'll pass on it thanks.

[dwoldrich]

> The lockdowns and quarantine started under Trump for instance

There were states like SD that were done with lockdowns in July of 2020, if I recall correctly. And, their outcomes were better. I never mentioned Trump, he was always a states' rights guy, but you're right he was the guy in charge, so he needs to be held to account on covid.

My state's voters are hopeless. I will never understand the shallow emotional appeals here that unfailingly win the day.

> More fires in the western US that burn longer and cause more damage.

We do have a lot of fires! You attribute that to climate? In my opinion, a lot of those fires are intentionally set and for a lot of reasons.

> You are going to have to explain this statement because I don't see how abortion is a racket. Unless you mean saber rattling over abortion.

You think there's no money in abortion? Check it out, use your imagination. I'm saying the earlier fetuses can come to term outside the womb and the better tech like ultrasound gets, the more the fetus becomes humanized and will be accorded human rights. If the population crashes, the whole life discussion will flip. The clock is ticking on this topic, and it's ultimately going to be seen as barbaric.

> However, I've read all of Agenda 47 and the GOP 2024 platform and I'll pass on it thanks.

It's reactionary. If the D's and RINO's could show a little restraint, maybe the pendulum wouldn't have to swing so hard.

How about not just giving your vote away for cheap/free purely over Blumph hatred this time and demand some actual reforms and accountability from your side? How much faff is in your platform?

[BadHumans]

Whether it is reactionary or not doesn't matter. They are still policies I don't support and even with this statement you lay the blame at other people's feet. With many other points, you are beginning to delve into conspiracy so I think this conversation has run its course. And I don't have a side, that is cult thinking. I request accountability from everyone.