[Suzuran]

They've already removed themselves from society, that's most of the problem. They are now above society, immune to the laws that restrict us. They feel this should give them the right to rule us with literal power over life and death as the Gods or Lords of old did.

If you doubt that the extremely wealthy are indeed above our laws, please show me even one instance of a billionaire being successfully jailed for a criminal offense in the entire history of the USA. As far as I am aware, it has never happened because the government fears the wrath that their wealth and their political connections can bring to bear.

Edit: This argument was defeated, I forgot about Bernie Madoff.

[Dracophoenix]

There's Bernard Madoff.

[Suzuran]

You're right, I forgot about him. I would argue that he's a special case - He was prosecuted only because he negatively impacted other billionaires, not because he harmed one of us common rabble. But I did not specify that originally and that would be moving the goalposts. You are correct and therefore my argument is defeated.

[burner_and_co]

Also Sam Bankman-Fried, but same caveat applies.

[halfcat]

> They've already removed themselves from society

Larry Ellison in particular literally owns 98% of one of the Hawaiian islands.

[eth0up]

A valid perspective.

I have noticed, not in every instance, but in many, that unusually wealthy people, especially wealthy and intelligent, have a tendency to detatch a bit from general reality, often becoming idealistic in ways that seem clear to the individual, but are fundamentally delusional. I think compassion and grounding has a tendency to become compromised by the insidious nuances imparted by security and abundance, ie great wealth.

Again, though, I've observed exceptions and am aware of the limitations to my own observations and may be missing a lot. I also do not protest wealth, but do wish it came with a sustained understanding of its underlying dependency on the very things, people and factors that enable it to be.

[rufus_foreman]

>> please show me even one instance of a billionaire being successfully jailed for a criminal offense in the entire history of the USA

Jouaquin Guzman Loera (El Chapo) - $1 billion - drug trafficking - convicted in 2019, serving life sentence

Raj Rajaratnam - $1.3 billion - securities fraud and conspiracy - served 7 years of an 11 year sentence

Bernard John Ebbers - $1.4 billion - fraud and conspiracy - served 12 years of a 25 year sentence

David Ng Lap Seng - $1.8 billion - bribery - served almost 3 years of a 4 year sentence

John Kapoor - $2 billion - racketeering and wire fraud - served 2 years of a 5 and a half year sentence

Allen Stanford - $2.2 billion - Ponzi scheme - convicted in 2012, serving 110 year sentence

Carlos Enrique Lehder Rivas - $2.7 billion - kidnapping, drug trafficking, and murder - served 33 years of a 55 year sentence

Alfred Taubman - $3.1 billion - antitrust violations - served a 10 month sentence

Rishi Shah - $3.6 billion - mail fraud, wire fraud, bank fraud, money laundering - recently given 7 and a half year sentence

Michael Milken - $3.7 billion - securities and tax violations - served 22 months of a 2 year sentence, later pardoned by President Trump

S. Curtis Johnson - $4 billion - fourth-degree sexual assault and disorderly conduct - served 3 months of a 4 month sentence

Viktor Bout - $6 billion - conspiring to sell weapons to a U.S. designated foreign terrorist group - 10 years of a 25 year sentence, released in a prisoner swap with Russia in exchange for a WNBA basketball player