[trod123]

> I am personally not worried. Any outcome is great. Either I keep a well paid job and it becomes even more well paid, or AI is so good there aren't any jobs at all anymore, which sounds good too.

You certainly have a rose-tinted magical way of viewing the world.

You haven't thought through the consequences of this at all. I'll break this down a bit further for you hopefully in a way you can understand.

You work to provide value in exchange for a store of value; currency. You do this to spend that currency on food and other basic necessities which are dependencies for your survival, first, and then discretionary spending second.

Producers hire you so you can distribute labor and produce, so they can make a profit. They stop producing when that's no longer possible. Its an agreement between both parties which enable distribution of labor and exchange of goods flowing through an economy. Without either part, no exchange occurs, there may be a brief stalling period but when its stalled everyone's goose is cooked. It is a very fine balance, or supercritical state where deviations can cause exit conditions. Sound similar to an n-body problem; that's because it is, along with mathematical chaos (small changes in inputs create dramatic unpredictable changes in outputs).

When there are no jobs, you can't earn currency, and you suddenly can't feed yourself. You have nothing to do, no way to differentiate yourself either.

Worse, No one will listen to you because you no longer provide value, you are now a nameless worthless slave. The only thing you had was trading your time and education for money and this is now gone. Your children will be worse off because the cost of education will no longer provide benefit.

This will worsen as population grows.

Eventually because resources are inherently scarce, someone somewhere with power, will decide its just better to reduce the number of mouths to free up resources; and they'll decide for you that you and your entire family meet that criteria, along with many others, but not the majority who voted those people into those positions of power. It will be a genocide of the rational and intelligent, powered by big data and your tax dollars.

It won't be the old people because they represent the most power having started and accumulated power first, but they will eventually be on the chopping block as well.

Along with this, production systems will fail, either as a result of vandalism, or growing corruption all causing shortage, which causes unrest and violence. With no market, or medium of exchange (inflationary economies fail when debts exceed production), order wanes.

The rational and intelligent people will fight back weakly, trying to organize to survive by destroying the system of bondage and slavery that is imposed on them without their consent. Eventually everything fails as systemic issues cascade.

Because intelligent people have the capability of great harm, they will be eliminated first favoring others instead.

Are you worried yet? You should be, every single thing here logically follows the next with just a little educated background in economics and history.

The world you say sounds so good, is in fact a hellscape world of spiraling madness, and intolerable suffering with no one capable of the first step (recognition) that can stop the death march forward. Anyone that could will have been killed long before recognition could happen in ways that don't attract attention and it will only show up in the actuarial tables under mortality.

People will stop having children when they can no longer afford to.

Old will crowd out the young as medical technology improves, and then there will be a great dying and collapse.

Those that remain will have not been prepared, having developed in a disadvantaged environment and so these collapses may end in the annihilation of the civilization as a whole.

By the time you recognize the problem (if at all) its too late to do anything about it, and your heads on the chopping block along with your family and friends because you had the intelligence to do the job in the first place, but not enough for you to foresee the consequences of your choices.

You and others like you are so concerned with can you do something, that you didn't think about should you do something.

Older generations called this type of blindness and destruction evil, and viewed it as a curable malady at the turn of the century; but not a cure anyone would willingly choose.

Currently, we are on track for economic collapse by 2029, though the more they print the sooner it occurs.

Mises has a full breakdown on how centralized systems fail, written in the 1930s. Its why socialism is considered a failed economic system by rational people.

[motoxpro]

To use your phrase of: You haven't thought through the consequences of this at all. I'll break this down a bit further for you hopefully in a way you can understand.

Don't even have to go further than "You work to provide value in exchange for a store of value; currency."

Work assumes that there is work to be done. If everything is abundant, there is no work to be done because no currency needed. Who makes food? Machines. Who makes the physical infrastructure? Machines. Who generates the power? Machines.

I'm not saying that this is going to happen (I also don't think anything you're saying is going to happen either), and I think the GP was being facetious, but if you are going to take that statement seriously, then I think you do not understand what abundance truly means.

[trod123]

You are blind, and supporting something that is both incredibly evil and destructive.

If you can, take a look at what abundance does to people in the real world, objectively, do some actual research. Look at mortality for lottery winners, and business tycoon heirs; read their horror stories.

When there is no work, there is no purpose, no growth, no value, and no life, nothing new happens.

It is death, either quick and self-inflicted, or slow until madness from suffering takes over, where you can't notice it along the way like a person suffering from a progression of Alzheimer's. That is the abundance you seek.

[motoxpro]

I said "I'm not saying that this is going to happen" so I wouldn't say I am supporting it. Was just making a point that you looked at it too black and white and didn't think through everything. More of a response to what I felt was unnessecarry pompusness

Your argument feels more like an anarcho-primitivism/Unabomber idea of abundance or technological progress reducing humanity's satisfaction, so we should stay where we are, i.e., always have tasks(work) rather than pursue fulfilment.

[hnthrow28]

That is probably not what he meant.

1. The weaknesses of the human condition might be the cause of our destruction. That's why I am not surprised when people give these anti doomer takes. History keeps repeating again and again and people haven't really learned from their mistakes.

2. The solution to this problem would be to fix or greatly diminish human greed and selfishness or anything else that I might be missing. We would then have greater chances of heading towards a utopia.

We will end up with either a utopia or a dystopia.

[motoxpro]

I don't disagree. I don't really have too much of an opinion on which one we end up with. I was more pointing out that, at the limit, it's not certain that we will end up in a dystopia through abundance, more that it is extremely uncertain of which one it will be and to extrapolate as the GP did is to not full take abundance to it's limit.

[hnthrow28]

I would assume we are moving towards a dystopia. GP is correct on the dangers but his perspective is incomplete and takes you on a wrong direction as you may have said.

It would require a lot of people to understand the dangers and take action to solve the necessary problems before it's too late.

Governance and the other systems we have must fundamentally change. (All over the world)

We must acknowledge our flaws and frailty which causes us to be selfish,greedy and seek dominance and control over the rest. This is animalistic behaviour.

People must recognize that we are running out of time.

We are seeing a race whose direction is difficult to predict but the magnitude will be out of bounds.

If you are useless, you won't matter. Have you thought about how pests are treated?

This is relevant today and as time goes by, it's not difficult to predict.

I think we are heading towards a dystopian world.

I hope peace and goodwill prevails.

[meiraleal]

You sounds like those annoying religious nuts screaming the end is near and we all going to hell.

[hnthrow28]

I understand what you have said but I have an argument why it can happen before 2029. How can I contact you securely? I asked this since you know the dangers, you might be extremely worried.

[trod123]

I'm aware of the severity but I don't have a secure way of being contacted at the moment. I don't know when I'll have it up and running.

Most of my devices have been repeatedly compromised on a fairly consistent and continuing basis (bricked at the firmware level; routers, modems, phones). HFC-head end services appears compromised on the ISP side, reports have been made; tickets opened; and closed 30 days later with no correction, and no record on future calls so its all BS.

I have been bogged down in the process of recovering from backups. Its slagged enough hardware that I now keep SPI firmware and parallel memory chip backup images for my important systems prior to connecting them to a network, and its a real chore accessing the hardware to revert to known working good images for quite a lot of these component interfaces; often they are buried destructively under pads/thermal heat sinks.

I don't have an ETA, its minute detailed work, and working directly with hardware really isn't my forte.

> you might be extremely worried.

That's been fairly consistent since this came to my attention a few years ago, not for myself but for family and friends that might survive this.

In fairness, I think its likely I'll be dead from vaccine injury by the time this rolls around. Nerve-function and muscle loss are progressive and worsening, and its stumped every expert, and worsening symptoms after reintroduction of booster, and infection later (from the grocery store, C19) so odds aren't good.

I've done what I can, and dwelling on the things you can't control doesn't do anything but create misery.

I'm aware there are a number of things that can accelerate the timetable where it would happen sooner, some outlier things as early as late 2025, but those aren't likely to happen.

2029 is the point at which the economic system fails to socialism/communism with no action needed from anyone; just business as usual. From there, its a steady death march to full collapse and most don't have a clue.