[quintushoratius]

>> Automotive batteries have been demonstrated as >90% recyclable, far better than most materials we consider "recyclable" today such as plastic

> Citation needed

It shouldn't be hard to believe. The components of a battery aren't consumed during operation. An old battery weighs the same as a new battery, and the chemical reactions taking place inside are reversible (because that's how a chemical battery works).

I believe, though, the the previous commenter erred. 90% of _batteries_ are recycled.

According to Wikipedia, lithium battery recycling can see up to 96% recovery rate of material. Lead acid is over 98% of the lead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling

> However if you travel lots and are heavily use charge stations at super markets et al, then EVs will be much cheaper to run than ICE.

This statement is confusing to me.

In my experience in the US, charging away from home is far more expensive.

Charging at home has added an average of $10/month to our electric bill. Charging at a commercial charger can easily cost $5-$10 _per charge_.

At home I have a 3kw charger, one of the lowest options you can buy. I prefer to take time and keep the battery cool. Heat kills batteries faster.

Your statement about your cost comparison doesn't mention maintenance, which is a significant savings. No oil changes, no rusted exhaust pipes, no spark plugs, etc. Over the life of the car, that's tens of thousands of dollars unspent.

[hnlmorg]

> in my experience in the US, charging away from home is far more expensive

We have lots of free charging points in the UK. Or at least they do around me.

> Your statement about your cost comparison doesn't mention maintenance, which is a significant savings. No oil changes, no rusted exhaust pipes, no spark plugs, etc. Over the life of the car, that's tens of thousands of dollars unspent.

In my experience the maintenance costs is usually more tyres, suspension, breaks, and other similar things that would equally need to be maintained on EVs.

Oil changes and spark plugs are cheap. Never had an issue with my exhaust pipe but I’m sure that’s a thing. Have had clutches burn out but that’s always been more specific to manual shifts rather than ICEs. Cam belts is definitely one big ICE consumable that EVs wouldn’t require though.

I’m sure EVs will have their own specific areas of maintenance as well, but I’ll admit I haven’t done much research in that specific area.

[quintushoratius]

> In my experience the maintenance costs is usually more tyres, suspension, breaks, and other similar things that would equally need to be maintained on EVs.

You'll go through tires _slightly_ faster because the cars are heavier. With the exception of some standouts like Tesla's Cybertruck, which reportedly is only getting 6k miles on a set of tires, the wear rate is slightly higher. Low rolling resistance tires are slightly more expensive. Plan on whatever you're paying now plus 20% to cover the difference.

I've never had to change the suspension on any of my cars. I wouldn't even consider it in a maintenance list unless you live somewhere with truly shit roads, but the mileage and repair cost would be the same in EV or ICE.

Brakes last forever in an EV. 100k miles easily.

Oil changes in the US cost $50+, and are done every 3-4k miles (or $75+, 7-10k miles if you choose synthetic oil).

Spark plugs are cheap, but paying someone to replace them is not.

Some EVs have liquid cooling, but it lasts longer than coolant in an ICE.

I'm so used to people around me driving automatics, I forget to consider a clutch - but I get >100k per clutch so it's not a frequent or predictable cost for me.

Most recent cars, even the small ones, seem to have swung back to using timing chains rather than belts, and don't need regular changes. You can consider it if you like, but you have to take it on a case-by-case basis.

Unless you don't keep your cars long enough to notice, your exhaust system will rust. Water is a byproduct of combustion, after all, and steam corrodes faster than liquid water. It's worse if you make lots of short trips - which is where an EV shines.

Also consider non-regularly-replaced things in your maintenance list: oxygen sensors, water pumps, thermostats, heater cores, etc. You can't predict when these things will fail, but over 10 years you'll almost certainly have to replace some of them.

Consider, also, downtime while your car is in the shop getting the work done.

Contrast to an EV: none of that. A new battery in 150k-200k miles for $5k, unless you're still satisfied with the reduced range.

[hnlmorg]

You’re drastically overstating the differences between ICE and EV there. But that might be a side effect of American cars vs European cars.

[quintushoratius]

I don't think I'm overstating anything.

My wife and I have owned an EV since 2019. We also still have a couple of ICEs for me and my daughter. I'm not going to throw a car away just because.

I see the cost savings of an EV up close and personal. The only downside has been range for long trips, but 364 days of the year that's not a problem and for the remaining days my ICE does the job. When that car dies, I'll rent one when it's needed.

[hnlmorg]

So you’re comparing EVs that are > 5 years old with ICE vehicles that are < 5 years old. Or there’s a massive disparity between American and European ICE cars under 5 years. But I definitely have never spent the kind of money on maintenance you’ve described on cars younger than 5 years old.

[acdha]

I think your last sentence is it: those track for American vehicles. Longer driving distances, worse road conditions, and people buy unnecessarily large SUVs/trucks so most parts are 30-50% more expensive.

[flir]

> We have lots of free charging points in the UK

Wait, we do? There are people out there just giving away energy?

(I think I must have misunderstood you here).