[masklinn]

> Erlang values are not mutable. You can't have a 4, lose the execution pointer to another process, and when it comes back you suddenly have a 5 in that variable. (Barring arbitrary C, of course.) That's the aspect of "immutable" that matters from a multithreading point of view.

Which is of no relevance to Erlang in the first place, since it does not expose threads to the developer.

> I think that's basically what Go does, though I haven't quite studied it enough to be sure.

Go has mutable structures and mutable bindings.

[jerf]

"Which is of no relevance to Erlang in the first place, since it does not expose threads to the developer."

It may not expose them to the developer in the sense that they are available for the developer to directly manipulate, but it is certainly exposed that multiple cores may be running Erlang simultaneously. To the extent that it isn't relevant to Erlang, it is because Erlang has made it not relevant to Erlang by a conscious choice of the developers, not some sort of accident.

"Go has mutable structures and mutable bindings."

Yes, I said that, but can a structure owned by one goroutine be directly modified by another such that a single goroutine can observe that a reference has changed values which the goroutine in question has not changed? Do structures even belong to goroutines? One of the things that turned me off when I looked at it a while ago was that the docs were giving me a hard time answering this question, but I consider it a rather fundamental one. (But this was a while ago, much closer to its beginning.)

[masklinn]

> it is certainly exposed that multiple cores may be running Erlang simultaneously.

Sure, but there is absolutely no way that values can change "under your feet" within a process since processes don't share memory. Even if objects were mutable within a given process that would make no difference.

> Yes, I said that, but can a structure owned by one goroutine be directly modified by another such that a single goroutine can observe that a reference has changed values which the goroutine in question has not changed?

Not sure what you mean by "a single goroutine can observe that a reference has changed value". If a structure is not local to a goroutine A (because it was carried through a pipe or was created in a lexical scope other routines can see), then other goroutines will be able to alter it yes, as to whether A will be able to see that, well unless A memoized the old value (by deep-cloning the structure) A will see new values and not old ones.

> Do structures even belong to goroutines?

Go has no built-in concept of ownership, so that question is a bit tricky. Structures are only exclusive to a given goroutine if they are not visible by or shared with other routines. So if the structure in question has been created in a scope making it visible by multiple goroutines, or it has been carried across a channel to an other goroutine, then other goroutines will be able to modify it from "under your feet".