Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by DannyBee 644 days ago
Lawyer here (but FWIW, i donate to IJ so, uh, not exactly on the government's side here):

Take what i'm about to say as a description of the process rather than any support for it :)

So, it's not quite that. Here, they are claiming it because a dog "alerted" on the package, so they then claim it's related to criminal activity. regardless of whether they find actual drugs in it.

This part: "Even though Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department dogs alerted handlers to the smell of drugs in the box, no contraband could be found once it was opened."

The first part is why they were involved and allowed to seize it.

The second is mostly irrelevant, legally (whether it should be or not). You don't have to prove it contained drugs to prove it was proceeds of a crime or otherwise part of criminal activity. This part is actually right, whether it gets used in an insane fashion or not. This is civil and not criminal, so the standard is not "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".

They file a suit against the money itself. It ends up with a funny case title like "United States v. An Article Consisting of 50,000 Cardboard Boxes More or Less, Each Containing One Pair of Clacker Balls," or "United States v. Approximately 64,695 Pounds of Shark Fins"

(both real, but federal seizures. If a state seizes it, it's like State of Indiana v., and often less funny)

Even if the person is not charged with a crime, if they successfully argue the money itself is criminal proceeds or was involved in criminal activity, they can confiscate it.

So, it's not sending cash that enables them to seize it. It's whether the money is used in criminal activity. The thing that enables them to be involved is that the dog alerted to it.

Now, for as much bullshit as exists in dog alerts, in this case, fedex often goes through about 100k packages an hour in this site, and they have seized 100 of them in the past year.

That's a really really small percent of the packages.

2 comments

Here's one of those cases:

  United States v. an Art. Consisting of Boxes of Clacker Balls, 413 F. Supp. 1281 (E.D. Wis. 1976)
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/4...
> Now, for as much bullshit as exists in dog alerts, in this case, fedex often goes through about 100k packages an hour in this site, and they have seized 100 of them in the past year.

Such a vanishingly small percentage that it suggests some sort of parallel construction. Surely the dog (and handler) aren't just standing there all year waiting to hit on a package..

Doubtful - for the simple reason that fedex has cameras everywhere, and unlike the police and bodycam footage, they have no dog in this fight, so they aren't going to mysteriously lose the footage.

So my guess - they set aside the very small percent of very funny smelling or leaking or ... packages (since lots of packages never see human hands, it would be a very small percent anyway) and then the police dogs sniff them.

If i remember, i'll see if i can find some earlier docketed cases and see if they describe whether they have police there all the time or not. I honestly would not be shocked.

I live near a mcmaster carr warehouse that is about a million square feet (one of their larger ones), and they have local k-9 police out front 24/7 just sitting in their car near the entrance to the facility (AFAICT - they have been there every time i have ever done will-call, and when i asked the guy, he said they were there 24/7)

It would not surprise me that fedex's indy hub (which is 2.4 million square feet, and more important than this mcmaster carr warehouse) had local police k-9 units around 24/7.

Last but definitely not least, the indy hub is, IIRC, at the indianapolis airport. In that case, there would definitely be k-9 units and local police just hanging around.

Not to be that guy but all packages are touched by human hands. Probably 3-4 people on average at each stop on a tracking status page, and that's assuming small items like flat envelopes and small boxes are grouped together into giant bags throughout the process.
Fair enough. I can’t edit it to remove that part, which is mostly orthogonal to the point.