[gruseom]

There's no argument here - just sarcasm and unsupported claims. You invoke janitors to imply that non-hierarchical organization can't possibly work. But you don't know that; no one does. People have barely begun to experiment with these forms. How much imagination has gone into figuring out ways to accommodate menial labor so far? It takes time.

If we can figure out how to build software without bosses, I'm confident we can figure out how to clean toilets.

[epochwolf]

Some developers already know how to clean toilets. :)

[gruseom]

Indeed. One possibility (though I'm sure there are many others) is to divide the work that no one wants to do. There's even a handy word for that: chores.

[lazugod]

> People have barely begun to experiment with these forms.

In the history of human hierarchies, I think Valve will be neither new nor notable.

[gruseom]

Not sure I get you. Valve doesn't have to be either of those things.

Work democracy and self-organization are old ideas. They go back at least to late 19th century anarchists. At that time they were so far out that only utopians and revolutionaries took them seriously. That we now plausibly discuss them is already notable in the history of human hierarchies.