[triceratops]

I have no love for Tesla and I won't buy one as long as Elon Musk owns it.

But alas I think most major automakers are massively dropping the ball on EVs. I'm particularly disappointed in Toyota and Honda - I really expected better from them.

Where's the Corolla EV or the Civic EV? How about a nice little hatchback? Nope. Everyone's building crossovers, compact SUVs, fuckin' pickup trucks - it's a complete clownshow.

[hedora]

One thing that’s frustrating is that everyone is converging to a few form factors instead of trying to fill each other’s gaps. There aren’t really any sporty things, and even the F-150 electric is only barely at 150-class specs (the bed is tiny).

Also, the number of boneheaded moves by the legacy car companies is astounding.

Ford just pushed their roadmap out a few years. Stellantis has nothing(?). Chevy dropped the ball by discontinuing their best model and then deciding not to pursue the “people that own cell phones” market segment.

I think the list of top ten global automakers will be very different in ten years. These companies seem likely to be on it (no particular order), based on current lineups of native EV platforms:

Tesla, Rivian, Volvo (polestar), Kia, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai, and probably Ford, despite the delays.

I’m leaving Genesis and Vinfast off my US-centric list, but they’re certainly contenders.

[fragmede]

It's worth noting that the F150 Lightning has a cavernous frunk, so that 5.5' bed turns out to be just fine, depending on your use case.

[hedora]

Yeah, it’s a cool vehicle. It’s just not a drop in replacement for a full sized 150/1500 pickup truck.

[tbrownaw]

> and then deciding not to pursue the “people that own cell phones” market segment.

How would one even do that?

[BobaFloutist]

I suspect, without knowing the actual situation with Chevy, that this is a somewhat oblique reference to some grievance with their approach to Android Auto/CarPlay (or lack there of).

[dehrmann]

No BYD?

[hedora]

That’s definitely an oversight on my part.

[lotsofpulp]

The extra up front cost and greater long term depreciation of a Corolla EV or civic EV is not worth it compared to a gas hybrid car for anyone that drives 10k miles per year, maybe even 15k miles per year.

Toyota’s gas hybrid tech has decades of track record that they will hold their value.

[triceratops]

A Corolla or Civic EV implies a relatively cheap, really good quality, reliable car that holds its value. Not literally those bodies on an electric platform, but something that embodies those characteristics in an electric vehicle. I guess I used to have faith that if anyone could crack that problem, it would be the two Japanese giants.

[maxerickson]

The performance and cost of batteries is still changing fast enough that it doesn't make all that much sense for them to be dipping their toe in the water. They are investing in battery tech and are pretty likely to launch good vehicles when batteries that have good range and charge fast hit some target price point.

The market for electric vehicles that cost quite a bit more than similar size vehicles exists, but it's not like people that are shopping on a budget are going to choose based on performance and prestige, they are going to choose based on price, and conventional vehicles can still be built for lower costs.

[triceratops]

I hope you're right they're simply biding their time.

[jtriangle]

The issue is, if you want to make an EV cheap enough to sit in the Civic/Carolla market, it still ends up being useless for most people because you can't afford to equip it with a large battery. Not to mention the only way an EV makes sense is if you can charge it with your own utility power, having to go and sit at a charger for 30+ minutes isn't, and will never be, tenable for most people.

Think about who's buying Civics and Corollas. It's apartment dwellers mostly, and they don't have chargers, nor can they. Maybe their parking lot has chargers, and those will be expensive, and they could use public chargers, which are also expensive, but you're talking basically making the cost 1:1 with a gas car at that point, but less convenient, less range, heavier, and all that assumes you can even sell it in that price bracket. It simply makes no sense for the majority of consumers. You'd have to invert the gas/electric pricing, which, given current trends, isn't likely to happen.

Now will that always be the case? Very likely not, eventually we'll have cheap power, eventually enough people will be driving EV's that gasoline loses its scale advantage. Until then, the EV market will stay mid-high end, and that means crossovers/suv's/trucks/etc.

Some people view that as dreadfully bad, myself, I'm happy that EV's are being developed and sold. By the time the world is ready for them, they're going to be very, very good, and that's the point which I'll be buying one. That is assuming I don't nab myself a late 90's ford ranger with a blown motor and build my own EV first.

[tayo42]

Is it worth making a corolla electric right now? It's a budget car. New costs 22k

Rav 4 gas starts at 28k, and Rav 4 prime is 43k,so 15k more

If your going to buy a 37k electric sedan, with that budget your probably not looking at a corolla anymore?

[SoftTalker]

Americans in the majority prefer pickup trucks, SUVs and crossovers. Ford entirely quit making sedans and hatchbacks a few years ago, at least for North America.

[triceratops]

How did Tesla become the most valuable carmarker in the world making mostly sedans?

[jandrewrogers]

Tesla primarily sells into coastal cities where the driving conditions and use cases are ideal for an EV sedan. That said, most of the people I know with a Tesla also have an ICE SUV or truck.

[wkat4242]

The world is a lot bigger than the US. And valuation is not actual value but more whatever the current overhyped investor thinks it's going to bring in the future.

[stonogo]

By being valued as a tech company instead of as an automaker.

[dehrmann]

Tesla's sales were mostly in cities (where people still buy sedans), and they were mostly taking away business from foreign manufacturers.

[rendang]

The Model Y is Tesla's best selling car and has been for a while

[triceratops]

Tesla combines Model 3 and Model Y sales when they report results, so we don't actually know that. According to estimates*, and my own eyes, more Model 3s are sold than Model Ys.

* 2021 is the last year for which Wikipedia has estimates for both vehicles. The Model 3 sold over 1m, the Model Y around 400k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_Y#Sales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3

[rendang]

Right but some countries (incl China) have explicit registration data so these estimates are not a shot in the dark. From Jose Pontes' article where the Wikipedia Y estimates came from, there were 530k 3s sold and 1.2M Ys sold

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/05/world-ev-sales-report-t...

[rendang]

Your figure for 2021 Model3 Sales is actually 3+Y btw

[katbyte]

Consistently making things up/lying to boost the stock price