[nottorp]

1 km of freeway is 10-40 million so 325-1300 km of freeway.

1 km of high speed train line is 20-60 million so 216-650 km of high speed train

Ireland's healthcare spending was 22.3 Bn in 2023, so 13 Bn covers 7 months of healthcare for the country.

I see the OP included "In € 2.24Bn National Childrens Hospitals? 5.8 National Childrens Hospitals" so they're on the right track.

We're talking about state spending here so it's pointless to compare it to the price of a tablet IMO.

[ok_dad]

> 1 km of high speed train line is 20-60 million so 216-650 km of high speed train

In America, that's how much it costs to build a 30km elevated train that goes ~45km/h (and it isn't going to be finished until ~25 years after work started):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_(Honolulu)#Revised_sch...

I am totally for trains, BTW, but I wish we'd hire EU and/or JP train builders to plan and build our trains.

[bryananderson]

FWIW the issue is not mostly the builders—the issue is contracting practices and program management/oversight. California HSR hired (among other contractors) Dragados, which has a long history of building huge amounts of HSR in Spain at some of the world’s lowest costs. Look how that’s gone.

Nor is the problem “bureaucracy” as a sibling comment said—actually the opposite is true, we need more “bureaucrats” with technical expertise to oversee contractors so the taxpayers don’t get our lunch eaten. We have gutted all technical expertise from government and now we often outsource the oversight to even more contractors (sometimes the same ones doing the designing and building!). Results are predictable.

We also have a huge problem with litigation and “regulation by litigation” as a replacement for actual “bureaucratic” oversight. Agencies conduct insanely expensive years-long public feedback programs and environmental studies (never mind that electric rail is innately good for the environment) for fear of lawsuits, which happen anyway and delay things even more. Instead of regulation by litigation, the government should step up and provide a clear set of achievable regulations, and if agencies/companies meet them, they can start building.

The countries that do rail infrastructure really well and really cheaply are not always the ones you expect—some are stereotyped as lazy and bureaucratic (Italy, Spain) and some are thought to be places where everything is expensive (Switzerland, Norway). We have a lot to learn, but often we tell ourselves that it just can’t apply to us because we’re so exceptional.

For details on the specific problems and solutions: https://transitcosts.com/

[bko]

I don't think its the builders. I think its the red tape and bureaucracy. Every agency wants to opine and get their pound of flesh. Also its nearly impossible to even get cleared to bid on these contracts.

[Iulioh]

Sadly we got our problems, mainly the fact that there isn't a unified ticketing system.

But as long as you travel insode only one country it's great.

In Italy trains work well and i heard that actually Trenitalia is so good that it's expanding to other countries

Edit:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovie_dello_Stato_Italian...

Seems that trenitalia actually controls A LOT of companies across Europe, super interesting.

[austin-cheney]

They have tried that several times in Texas but it always gets killed by special interests, namely the air carriers

[fragmede]

> I am totally for trains, BTW, but I wish we'd hire EU and/or JP train builders to plan and build our trains.

Why? They wouldn't end up being any cheaper or able to make the trains run on time.

[bobthepanda]

When CA HSR was being proposed, there was some interest from SNCF of France and JR of Japan, but they specifically called out that the chosen route was very risky and hard to build.

Now it's ballooned from $33B to $100B+.

[timvdalen]

I think the point of the tablet was to compare it to giving pupils school materials.