[Mrdarknezz]

I highly doubt the technical debt and inevitable vulnerabilities weigh up any perceived time saved. Also when you use a framework like laravel you're sort of forced into building applications in similar styles making it easier for other developers to cooperate instead of having to figure out some weird homemade framework.

[endofreach]

laravel has too much magic that really, really, really gets in the way as soon as you get to where things become interesting. too much magic. definitely not clean. and architecture wise… well… i have just never seen a project with controllers that is well designed. and if you even advocate to use a framework with bad design choices because many others do the same… it’s still bad design & it will come back and bite you.

you should always prefer a codebase optimized for the business, the purpose & the people who work on it everyday. if that requires more time to grasp it for newcomers, perfect. people make that weird argument all the time for going with a framework due to popularity & common ground. that’s so absurd. optimizing for onboarding time & quickest graspability, when that factor is usually irrelevant in most projects.

also, the best thing about modern PHP are the PSRs. They are not appreciated enough. Stick with them. Don’t be clever. Don’t use magic. Be explicit. Don’t don’t repeat yourself. Write code like your mom reads it. Et voilá, your homemade framework is gonna be just fine.

Especially compared to projects built around frameworks by devs who very rarely if ever look at the source code of the magic they use. debugging and fixing those issues took more of my lifetime than the hours i’ve put into updating my personal web app framework (latenight-php).

Also: Choosing which tire you want doesn’t equal reinventing it. And also: thank good people reinvented the wheel so many times… imagine EVs on rolling stones or wooden wheels.

[gregjor]

If you know the language and libraries you can figure out any framework code, whether Laravel or some "weird homemade" thing. If you only know a framework then you have limited your options and job opportunities. And you stay in the shallow end with all of the other semi-skilled programmers.

[gjsman-1000]

> semi-skilled programmers

Elitism is not welcome here. Are you a "semi-skilled" programmer if you are a web dev and don't know C++ and pointers? Are you a "semi-skilled" programmer if you are an embedded developer and don't know JavaScript?

> If you only know a framework

This makes the assumption that by knowing a framework, you will be unable to learn how to use the language at large. This is not necessarily true - a person who has learned Laravel will probably figure out CakePHP or CodeIgniter in a weekend. They just prefer Laravel for their jobs, and that's a legitimate choice. They've also made the decision that, even though Laravel makes breaking changes over time, the productivity boosts are greater than the downtime.

Which is also a legitimate choice when Laravel upgrades have been automated for years for $29. https://laravelshift.com/

[gregjor]

Semi-skilled means knowing a framework to some degree, but struggling with the language the framework is written in. Nothing to do with C++ or embedded -- I clearly contrasted Laravel et al. with PHP, and Goravel with Go.

Anyone who prefers Laravel or any other framework can use it. I wrote that neither PHP nor Go need a framework because they have everything necessary to implement web applications.

If you don't want to get laid off because everyone and their mother, and now LLMs, can copy-paste Laravel sample code for $15/hr (see Upwork, for example) improve your skills. If you want to have more opportunities in the programming job market expand beyond frameworks and learn the underlying languages and libraries.

[gjsman-1000]

At this point you’re just making stuff up.

https://www.upwork.com/hire/laravel-developer/us/

[wsatb]

You can figure it out, but likely with a lot of questions. Why did you do it this way vs that way? What were you thinking here? Why does it appear this was "hacked" in? Bring in a new developer that doesn't completely understand your thought process and the code just gets worse and worse over time. I think you're oversimplifying.

You should absolutely learn the language, but reinventing the wheel on every project is not the way. And if you're not reinventing the wheel, then all you've done is create your own framework that only you know the ins and outs of. Sounds more like you're looking out for your own job security than anything.