[lucisferre]

Honestly when it comes to the subject of women's issues in frat boy tech cultures I've seen people on this site post (and vote up) some stupid f'ing shit, but you may have just won the triple crown with this absolute sexist entilted load of crap. I love how you ended it with "male and female" just so you could feel a bit better about yourself in the morning.

[temphn]

You can rant at heretical thoughts all you want. You offer no counterarguments other than pointing and screaming. I want you to recognize that the free speech of the internet means there are men who can and will offer different opinions about these matters. Anonymity means immunity from character assassination over a difference of opinion.

After all, who really has the power here? Isn't Sheryl Sandberg the billionaire, and those two engineers the ones whose careers were ruined?

[lucisferre]

You're plainly idiotic point of view isn't even remotely worth a cogent argument, but I've noticed that saying nothing to posts like yours around here is often taken by others as tacit agreement.

[taligent]

You can't possibly be serious.

One engineer propositions other employees for threesomes and the other calls a fellow employee a feminist and is aggressive towards her. In ANY organisation on this planet both would more than likely have been instantly dismissed.

It is grossly unprofessional to say the least.

[temphn]

You find her accusations plausible. Others may not. She certainly constructed an elaborate internal discourse out of this bearskin rug photo. And seemed proud of the fact that the engineers were demoted or reassigned without even having a chance to defend themselves.

Are false accusations or office politics of such an underhanded nature "grossly unprofessional"?

[pnmahoney]

You're really going all-in on this double standard thing, aren't you?

1. Credibility You're take as fact that the accusations are already false, and hence "grossly unprofessional". Which holds pretty much no water, since that this person is making a claim not just about her own knowledge (re: the aggression/harassment in question) but ALSO about what actually was also common knowledge at the time. Let's not leave out, either, that books of length probably don't lend themselves well to 100% fabricated accusations - least of all those which implicate small groups of people and mention them by name. So much for anonymity and character assassination, huh?

On the other hand, the recounted instance the author gives us is being falsely accused of being difficult to work with after a manager refuses to move past aggression.

2. Stated Accusation vs. Perception

"she seemed proud of the fact that the engineers were demoted or reassigned without even having a chance to defend themselves"

You're living in the world of 'seems', rather than the world of facts. Of course, facts can be fabricated, and we can prove that they are in fact false. No one is denying that.

That said, things stated _as facts_ (behavior specified, conversations recalled, timelines constructed, etc -- basically the stuff that makes up this piece and others like it) are going to be better than your world of made up accusations (the stuff that separates conspiracies like the one you're touting here from an actual story). Think _Loose Change_ vs. _All The President's Men_.

But as to the merits of what you've said, I don't know why she 'seemed proud' to you. Joining you - again, temporarily - in your world of impression, you'll find that she had _seemed_ pretty dejected and not the least bit upset that she had to go through her superiors to get anything done about it. The word might be something more like 'relieved'.

3. ASSUMPTIONS

You straight-up assert that these people didn't have the chance to defend themselves, and that's how they were fired. The truth, by your way of thinking, was something that was not let out because they did not have the chance to say it.

And, yet, you insist that others are ranting and, as you put it, 'pointing and screaming'. So let's work out the assumptions you're making, and who's doing any 'pointing'.

I'm not sure that those accused had the chance to defend themselves, that's something you have to admit from the account. But it's definitely not something you can - as you have here - straight-up assume. If that were the case, and these people were 100% innocent as you seem to believe, you can be sure they would have a book deal of their own; although I'm less sure if you wouldn't find some kind of duplicity or targeting then, either.

As well, the facts as given point against you: it's not a conspiracy against engineers. The person who was doing straight-up sexual harassment by her account was a senior supervisor/management or somesuch. It's not, as you put it, the two engineers that this evil woman and her billionaire female ally targeted.

Finally, let's not forget that the account also specifies that Cheryl Sandberg made a point of talking to all the females in the office to make sure things were right. Or could be made right, as was the case here. If you think that any of this points to a world in which the, say, 5% of women in the office lord over the politics and seek to find you and accuse you falsely so that you can be fired, well, no amount of bullshit-detection applied to your posts can save you.

[exit]

so you take her account of their behavior at face value?

the article makes it sound like sandberg did too and quietly "made things happen" on the strength of that.

that should legitimately concern men in tech.

[lucisferre]

My god, you're right! There is a witch-hunt for men going on by the women invading our industry. Its high time for us to stand up to it.

[exit]

you should be pretty worried if hyperbolic mischaracterization is the best response you have to someones argument.

women have privileges too. women abusing their presumed status as victum in conflicts with men is a very real phenomena.

[lucisferre]

I'm more worried that there are people who think what I just said was hyperbolic or a mischaracterization. Or that either of your comments could be construed as an argument.

[taligent]

I have to agree with you there. This post is every bad stereotype of IT workers rolled into one. In addition to the borderline misogyny is the dismissive attitude towards those not in IT.

As someone who has been in IT for 20+ years programming is SIMPLE compared to trying to get groups of people to work towards (and want to work towards) a common goal.

[niete]

We are all ever so impressed with how progressive you are.