[Terretta]

> the user* bit*

"The masses" do not want to carry a bag of spare batteries. The masses don't want to have to think about it.

The latest generation devices are mostly "don't have to think about it" on batteries.

> New batteries are ~20 bucks

Gotta love those after-market or counterfeit high density inflammable energy packs crammed against your body or the bagful of 9 spares left in your car...

https://www.motleyrice.com/news/lithium-ion-batteries-explos...

Getting worse, not better:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/09/tech/lithium-ion-battery-fire...

I want real ones from a real company spending real money on R&D, that I "know where they live" if it's a problem.

Speaking of quality, I can use current iPhone off grid with offline GPS all day, and use it again the next day — without taking any battery packs.

The new "max" devices clock effectively two day battery life if you are conscious of what you're using it for (say, camping out off grid instead of doomscrolling Insta, for instance). I find even 3 or 4 sometimes if you're not picking it up and are in low energy and low data mode. Definitely 3 - 4 if you shut it off while asleep. It's nuts.

[ClumsyPilot]

> Gotta love those after-market or counterfeit high density inflammable energy packs crammed against your body or the bagful of 9 spares left in your car.

You see sir, when manufacturers compete on price we call that free market, and when you try to stop that we call that overregulation or protectionism.

But when talking about apple we suddenly call it ‘counterfeit’

Regardless of safety/counterfeit, you do realise that the OP has like 2 weeks supply of batteries for camping or apocalypse, and if ‘off grid living’ is your use case, it’s a slam-dunk?

[evilduck]

For camping and off grid living, recharging spare LiPo batteries via a ribbon cable or contact pins sounds like a massive pain in the ass. Give me a standard USB C based power bank, the thing that Solar Generators and many panels have supplied connections for, and can be used for any USB C device. Plus the phone never has to be opened and be vulnerable to ingress of moisture or debris.

And for apocalyptic scenarios your LiPos will naturally degrade collectively together in a few years even if they sit unused. An external battery with a more stable long term chemistry would be better.

[nradov]

Back when Samsung phones had user replaceable batteries they also sold separate battery chargers. This was super convenient because I could just grab a fresh battery from the charger on my way out the door. No need to carry a separate USB power bank. And moisture wasn't a problem, they had water resistant models. It's really a shame that phones have gone backwards in that area while advancing in most others.

[jtriangle]

Samsung still makes the x-cover series of phones. They're usually used in commercial applications, but, you can find them sold unlocked pretty easily.

And they offer a little charging dock with pogo pins, so, no wearing out the USBC port.

[jtriangle]

I have little battery dock things, really dumb devices, but, USBC goes in, battery docks in, and it slow charges in about 8 hours. I've got 3 of them.

Also if you're talking about the world being dark for 3 years, not sure batteries are the thing to stock up on friend. We'd be well into mad-max mode after a few months I'd think, and after a year or so of that, well, nothing's going to come back for a good long time.

I'm much more concerned with making it, say, a week without being able to charge, which, I can easily do without thinking too much.

[evilduck]

I can also go several weeks off grid with literally any phone, a moderately sized power bank and a 40w solar panel hanging off my pack or over a tent without thinking too much. It's far more versatile for powering other devices and I never have to reboot my phone. If you want to carefully buy stuff you can even get a fully IP65 rated or better setup, which makes it actually survivable to the elements.

I can't see how juggling internal batteries is anything but the worst possible option. I can upgrade or replace any one component without obsoleting the rest. How many future phones will accept your stockpile of batteries?

[Terretta]

> if you're talking about the world being dark for 3 years, not sure batteries are the thing to stock up on friend

Friends don't let friends go camping with a bag full of replaceable phone batteries.*

A couple alternatives I like...

This costs considerably less per milliwatt-hour than even ~$20 replaceable phone batteries, and is rather more useful camping:

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Retractable-...

If one needs more oomph, this is 6 lbs, so I wouldn't take it for a walk. Depends on the type of camping:

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Portable-Generator-Traveling-Em...

For the little bank, something like Anker Solix PS30 Solar Panel charges like a wall wart with just a couple hours' midday sun in northern U.S. or southern E.U.:

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Foldable-Resistance-Ultra-Fast-...

North of 40th, combo can get us through strings of rainy days off grid while not thinking about it.

To cost less, on Alibaba you can match case style, plug placements, and feature/functions to find the same OEM models as well-known portable power and solar brands for a fraction of price if one doesn't mind ship time.

* That said, this is all one's power eggs in one power basket. To your point, a bag full of batteries means one can fry half a dozen and still have a few juicy eggs to suck dry, but don't lose tools or phone bits and bobs on field replacements and one will still want a panel or two to top them off!

[jtriangle]

Sure sure, and I lose the ability to keep a phone going 6+ years because the battery is glued into the case. So I'm making 3x the e-waste for... really nothing honestly.

In terms of power banks, I'm currently hoarding my friend's disposable vapes which all have fairly high output LiPO batteries in them. All I need once I'm done harvesting is a few 3D printed parts, a aliexpress BMS, and some wiring, and I'll have way more capacity than I know what to do with for very, very cheap. BMS is the most expensive part really, the rest is a few bucks, and, if I kill a cell, well, there's an abundance of disposable vape batteries available.

[jtriangle]

>you do realise that the OP has like 2 weeks supply of batteries for camping or apocalypse, and if ‘off grid living’ is your use case, it’s a slam-dunk?

I will admit, the main bottleneck is that I only have 3 battery dock chargers. So unless I'm planning on needing it, half of those batteries are charging or dead at any given time.

I'd bet I could be camping for a month or so with the batteries I have if I really put my mind to it.

[Terretta]

To others' point here, they even make solar topped rucksacks now. One of those, feeding a powerbank, and you top off your trailmap-photo-gps-emergency-sat-beacon gizmo on walkabout, no fiddling.

[jtriangle]

>"The masses" do not want to carry a bag of spare batteries. The masses don't want to have to think about it.

False, most people I know are already doing this, they're just doing it with a big lithium pouch cell coupled with a BMS/charge controller called a "battery bank"

>Gotta love those after-market or counterfeit high density inflammable energy packs crammed against your body or the bagful of 9 spares left in your car...

Never had one pop, never left anything lithium powered in a car. A black car on a very hot day in a very hot region can reach ~160f, which is hotter than the recommended storage temp of lithium batteries. Most places with a non-black car won't get hot enough to be a problem. Lithium batteries are fine to store up to ~140F. Do understand that the air in your car being 160f doesn't mean your batteries are, just that they will be eventually. How long is eventually? Ultra-situational. Put your batteries in a cooler, you're probably good forever. Put them loose on the dashboard, probably not good for very long. Same thing goes for your phone, or anything else with a lithium battery. They're not the boogyman, they're not magic, they're subject to the laws of thermodynamics just like everything else.

The reason for caution really is that you don't know the condition of your batteries. They could have been damaged but still function just fine until you put them into some marginal condition and then they're very not fine very quickly.

That's not specific to the batteries I carry in my backpack, that's the battery in your iphone too, and a quick google for "iphone battery fire" is proof of that enough.

That said, if your iphone sets your pants on fire, what're you realistically going to do? Sue apple? You know, the multibillion dollar a year company with so many lawyers that they have them setup in a huge building all their own? Good luck, you have exactly the same amount of recourse I do, ie, none. You also probably have auto insurance, and renters/homeowners insurance, so, it burning down your car/house/etc is well covered at least.

>effectively two day battery life if you are conscious

What people actually don't like doing is being forced to be 'conscious' of their devices. They don't really even like having to charge their devices. Throw a small standby battery in an iphone, have it pop the back off, swap in an iBattery that lives in your iBattery dock (which is also insulated and keeps your iBatteries charged up), and you're off to the races. Apple could make this a really good system.

They won't, because they exist to be as anti-consumer as possible while not pissing them off so much that they look elsewhere because that's what is profitable.

[Terretta]

> most people I know are already doing this, they're just doing it with a big lithium pouch cell coupled with a BMS/charge controller called a "battery bank"

Precisely. That means you can "not think about it" 4x as much as without it. One of those with USB-C in and a solar charger has gotten us by off grid for years, as well as perfect for long haul travel. No five minutes replaceable mucking about needed.

It's one thing, not a bag of 10, it packs slim, won't slow you down on an all-day all-night "Midnight Madness" scavenger hunt in NYC, and won't get you pulled out of line at the aeroport.

[jtriangle]

I wouldn't want to backpack with it to be honest. In my car? Sure, why not have a cooler sized battery with some solar panels, perfect solution really.

Also never had trouble flying with batteries. They're always in a ziplock and tossed into a bin, then back into my carryon. You can't check anything with a lithium battery, or, you're not supposed to at least.