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by a1o 649 days ago
I must have played a different D&D, the group I used to play very much favored Hack & Slash. When we wanted something more narrative we used a different system (GURPS was a good one)
2 comments

I prefer GURPS myself (although I prefer a "point-free" variant; you can put whatever advantages, disadvantages, skills, etc that you want to without worrying about the points or whether or not the modifier you want has been published in any book).

However, I think that GURPS can be OK for combat as well as narrative and other stuff. If you use many expansions books as well, then more options are possible. GURPS combat also has many options, and also I like the rules better than D&D in many ways. (Still, I think there are some problems with GURPS, and had tried to make up SciRPS to be better (in my opinion). Although GURPS has many skills, I think too many things are often combined in one skill; e.g. Brawling skill involves all unarmed combat (by punch, kick, claws, bite, horns, etc), but if you are skilled at only biting but not punch/kick, then it doesn't do that; skill of Morse code is the same skill as operating the communications devices to use it and are not separated; etc. "Point-free" helps a bit with this, but I think that it could be improved further, which is what I intended with SciRPS.)

To me, the RPG is that you can have many things together, including combat, magic spells, narrative, strategy/tactics, etc. This is what makes it what it is, rather than a computer game which is a different kind of game.

Although you might have plans (and the GM might have plans), many things will happen unexpectedly, due to what others are doing, due to the results of dice, etc, so that is another thing that RPG is.

That's interesting, I find the combat in GURPS to be FAR more satisfying and less restrictive than D&D. It's definitely more number crunching and more complex, but it's an internally consistent system so once you know it things flow pretty well. The leaky abstractions from D&D feel too much like it's trying to replicate a video game and doing so poorly.
Ironically it's closer to the other way around: Most video game RPGs are mechanically either based on D&D, based on another tabletop RPG that came about in the same era (Runequest, etc), or based on a tabletop RPG that was in-turn based on D&D.
Yes and no. There are some major issues in my mind like Armor Class which fortunately video games don’t really mess with. I started playing D&D back in the Skills and Powers days. You had a lot more character creation options and more granular systems than what D&D has simplified into. It’s really the latest versions of D&D that I feel like are a bad video game abstractions. Probably because of their streamlining efforts for the D20 system.
As someone whose first RPG was AD&D 2e, I get where you're coming from. IMO 3e/3.5e/PF1e didn't simplify it all that much, moreso they formalized the existing skills/powers systems that were there and added a buttload of additional classes and prestige classes for deeper customization options.

It's really 4e and 5e that simplified the game in huge ways. 5e kinda-sorta added some complexity back to it, but got rid of a lot of smaller numerical bonuses in favor of the advantage/disadvantage system.

But yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from with respect to the latest editions feeling more video-gamey. AD&D 2e and earlier had this distinctly simulationist feeling, where the intent was that you were in a world where you had to survive first and foremost and could maybe get some gold and glory if you were lucky, whereas 3e and later definitely drifted more into a "your party is/contains the main character(s) of this world" type paradigm which probably led to a lot of the more recent mechanical decisions.

It's a bit like the difference between a traditional roguelike vs a modern roguelike. One is a world simulation and you're on your own, the other is a game where you will win if you keep trying.